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Thread: Scary dogs?

  1. #101
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    Cavalierqld

    I think essentially we agree. That aggressive dogs should be on lead and muzzled in public places - mostly for their own safety.

    I think that we also agree that aggressive dogs should not be allowed off lead in off lead dog parks. Off lead dog parks are fraught with peril because so many people who use them have no idea about what an aggressive dog is.

    I've been trying to talk about a rude dog approaching a dog with joint problems - which I don't think you've understood. Old dogs and dogs in rehab still need their walks.

    I do get mad at people who take their dogs with contagious diseases out eg kennel cough. But I get equally mad at sick people who catch public transport, or go to work or send sick kids to school.

    A normal person and dog cannot tell the difference between a rude dog charging up, and an aggressive dog. And quite a few people have rude and aggressive dogs - who will pick fights with other dogs that stand up for themselves. I still think that people should not let their dogs charge up to on lead dogs without permission from that dog's owner. It can un do years of training or rehab. It's illegal, and I happen to think that particular law is a sensible one, and it's up to dog owners to make sure they know what the laws are. Same as drivers of potentially lethal cars should know what the road rules are.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfsie View Post
    The only thing wrong with that is a lot of people who say their dog is friendly actually have the aggressive running in dog and make the nervous non-aggressive dog retaliate with aggression.
    This is a very difficult subject...........Now you can maybe understand why I am not really keen on some off lead Parks.

    It is very dificult to make rulings, becuase first you would have to have it all on video, for someone to assess it to tell you which dog was the aggressor.....this so called friendly dog running at other dogs is not always friendly.he might look it to his owner, but is not
    Well i would hope the owner of the muzzled DA dog would not allow it to run and chase down other animals, but your right, this is the whole discussion here, being responsible for the issues your dog has whether its a DA dog or a snappy aggressive maltese, or a an over the top rude dog....the problem is , it isnt always going to happen.

    I always thought off leash type socialization was good for dogs especially nervous ones, kinda like keep doing it and they will get used to it and become more social...but it seems it only serves to creating more problems including needing to find ways of "saving" themselves when faced with an over the top dog or an aggressive one.

    I understand now there really is more downsides than upsides of off leash areas, because the majority of people that go there, wont have control of there dogs, although i have a little afternoon group where everyone knows each other and the dogs and just lets them run and play, they mostly all get in each others faces.....and know to stay clear of the grumpy"old shitzu", who has no time for "youngsters" , and seem to understand the pitti cross dosent allow any dog near his human....but is improving..., overall a nice tolerant bunch.

    I know after your advise Newfsie, and the links, i sure do look at behaviour differently now......i dont know if thats a good thing or a bad thing.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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  3. #103
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    Ah well the slobber would be from my Katy and Lukey, they do leave slobber when puppies dogs play with them, hence I carry towels for all ...but they never run in....katy especially will stay at a distance and lower herself. if the dog is friendly, she will present her butt, if not, she will move away. She is my barometer of dog friendly/aggression. Well mannered dogs come in sideways or present their back-end, usually with the head slightly lowered.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    Cavalierqld

    I think essentially we agree. That aggressive dogs should be on lead and muzzled in public places - mostly for their own safety.

    I think that we also agree that aggressive dogs should not be allowed off lead in off lead dog parks. Off lead dog parks are fraught with peril because so many people who use them have no idea about what an aggressive dog is.

    I've been trying to talk about a rude dog approaching a dog with joint problems - which I don't think you've understood. Old dogs and dogs in rehab still need their walks.

    I do get mad at people who take their dogs with contagious diseases out eg kennel cough. But I get equally mad at sick people who catch public transport, or go to work or send sick kids to school.

    A normal person and dog cannot tell the difference between a rude dog charging up, and an aggressive dog. And quite a few people have rude and aggressive dogs - who will pick fights with other dogs that stand up for themselves. I still think that people should not let their dogs charge up to on lead dogs without permission from that dog's owner. It can un do years of training or rehab. It's illegal, and I happen to think that particular law is a sensible one, and it's up to dog owners to make sure they know what the laws are. Same as drivers of potentially lethal cars should know what the road rules are.
    I do think we agree on most things, but the comments earlier regarding if a rude maltese goes up to a known DA dog, it deserves to be torn apart as that dog is entitled to protect itself? IMO opinion if you have a dog that you know is capable of,and willing to tear apart another dog...whatever the reason, it is your responsibity as a dog owner to do everything you can to stop that. The same applies if a dog capable of tearing your dog apart runs up to your dog.


    All im saying is there is no good reason in my opinion to allow a DA dog the opportunity to hurt another dog, there will always be rude dogs and owners so to muzzle a known DA dog...protects everybody in public places, its just responsible dog ownership.

    Its the same as human aggressive dogs, when walking on a lead should you have the opinion that if your back is turned for a moment and a toddler walks up and pats the doggy...it is her fault if the dog rips her face off, because the parents should have known they cant allow there child to walk up to strange dogs, or were distracted for a moment?
    No, HA and DA owners know the risks are there.... and to me they have the responsibilty to take the precautions, because things happen and a moment of distraction from owner or parent could result in a death or serious injury.

    And I do understand about dogs at off lead areas who are old or are in pain, the ones i have seen make very clear to any unruly "hi" dogs by growling or snapping before they even get too close, we have one in our group that all the dogs are very respectful of.
    Personally i wouldnt have a dog in pain at an off leash area, just because strange dogs can be very unpredictable, or if i did, i would be a "helicopter" owner, who hovers over her child and sees off any over the top dogs who come near........
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  5. #105
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    Hyacinth - I am certainly not disregarding the rudeness of SWF's or any dog that charges at another for any reason, your right, you have no idea of that dogs intentions no matter how small,and a SWF has just as much opportunity to make a nervous Rottweiler become DA as another rottweiler.

    Many SWF's and even a cattle dog with a nasty dispositions have run at my dogs while mine were on lead, and my foot has on occasion connected with there belly. Hopefully they will think twice about rushing me and my dogs with a bruised rib or 2....that may not be the text book way to solve the situation but it has worked for me....
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfsie View Post
    Ah well the slobber would be from my Katy and Lukey, they do leave slobber when puppies dogs play with them, hence I carry towels for all ...but they never run in....katy especially will stay at a distance and lower herself. if the dog is friendly, she will present her butt, if not, she will move away. She is my barometer of dog friendly/aggression. Well mannered dogs come in sideways or present their back-end, usually with the head slightly lowered.
    Picturing newsfie carrying her own towels for the misfortunate "slobbered "on friends

    My Molly is my aggression/ friendly meter, she will go up to "some" dogs slowly, but never to close and sits and wags her tail, she will look at them but not stare if you know what i mean...she seems after a minute or to so to know if they are worth knowing or not, if not, she wanders off and never gives them a second glance....no matter what they do, she will even move away if they come near her later, if they are friendly, she will walk off and ask if they wanna play, by jumping around playfully.
    i never taught her that, she has just always had good doggie manners and never been in any scuffles.

    My nervous one does similar to Katie, she will wait for mollies opinion, then goes up to dogs with her body low and kind of skewed sideways, head down a bit, tail half wagging and not really looking at them, but will never get boisterous with a dog and generally just likes to watch rather than play to much. What do you think that means in relation to her doggie manners?

    My other one is not very confident around other dogs, and wont approach them, although she is interested from a distance trying to smell them from a safe 6 feet away. If they come to her quietly she will usually roll on her back ,smell them, but then move away.
    Once a boisterous dog kept coming at her (friendly, but over the top) and after trying to run away it was still coming so she snapped but didnt connect with it, so i now keep her onlead if there are "rude" dogs around because it frightens her.

    My boy, used to be ok although he didnt approach other dogs and was always frightened of over the top dogs, so he stays onlead as well when i dont know the other dogs.
    When he was young, and in the group we meet with every afternoon as soon as I let him off the lead he would just run away, as far as he could go to get away from them...he dosent run so far away now, has never been confident and I feel would snap at a dog if he couldnt get away.

    How would you interpret their behaviour Newsfie, and is there anything else i could do other than trying to protect them from over the top dogs who frighten them, to help them be more confident and stop any fear aggression arising?
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  7. #107
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    I think it just comes down to managing your own dogs - that's all you can do & that's the only thing that you can control. You know your dogs, and you what they will and will not tolerate. Dogs that are not owned by you, are unfortunately out of your control.

    I don't believe all DA dogs need to be muzzled on-lead in public. It depends on how aggressive the dog is, and whether or not owner has 100% control of their dog. I regularly pass a grown man that has to stop, legs apart, two hands on the leash, leaning back to hold onto his aggressive Lab - now that is a dog i would want a muzzle on as he does not have any control over his dog whatsoever.

    All dogs have points where their patience is tested with other dogs. Does that deem them DA? Not at all. It's just about managing those instances.

    Off-lead parks will always be a hard topic. Do they enjoy all the other dogs hanging about in one spot? probably not. But for the most part they enjoy the chance to chase around the ball which they cannot do at home. If they hated it more than they enjoyed it, then i wouldn't bother. Again, it all comes down to reading your dog and making the right decision.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    How would you interpret their behaviour Newsfie, and is there anything else i could do other than trying to protect them from over the top dogs who frighten them, to help them be more confident and stop any fear aggression arising?
    The first two sound like they have it all figured.......And really the other two are smart in keeping their distance...... the only way to make dogs more confident is to allow them to meet friendly non-pushy dogs. Like I said before that is why I love our Kennel Club....We have so many well mannered dogs there that know how to be friendly and easy..the more of those sort of dogs they get to meet without any "bad" happening, the more relaxed they get. it is what I had to do with Annabelle, many good meetings to out weigh the bad ones. And then you can also counter condition and use the BAT system.....They get to use you as their comfort zone and become more confident.

    Behavior Adjustment Training (BAT) | Official site for BAT: dog-friendly training for reactivity (aggression, fear, frustration) by Grisha Stewart, MA

    I have the BAT book as a Kindle and PDF and book version, I have purchased it three times, so I feel I can share it...I use it all the time and loan it out a lot. If you want i can e-mail it to you, just pm me with your e-mail address


    But if there is no place to meet good dogs, it is best to do what you do and protect them.....I love the term you used "helicopter" LOL, that is me, how I used to be with Annabelle. Not so now, I can chill, because she now sits in front of me if she is worried...That is from BAT training. She has also taught herself to yawn at me and i return it..it calms her. You see I use calming signs in those situations too. I have a mixed bag of methods, it drives some people nuts, but I am not a pure trainer at any style LOL
    Last edited by newfsie; 06-25-2012 at 08:16 PM.
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  9. #109
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    Both of my dogs could be considered dog aggressive, and I would never take them to the dog park.

    With Barney is a BIT different. He loves to play with other dogs but I CANNOT arrive anywhere with other dogs with him on lead. So if I take him out walking and we see another dog while he is off lead, hes happy as larry. If we see the same dog with him on lead, he goes apeshit. He gets so excited to see them and get to them, but by the time you get there he escalated into aggression.

    Pippi is completely DA. There are no warnings of anything. The minute she sees a dog, she is chomping at the bit to go in for the attack.

    I dont muzzle either of them, and I wouldnt. They are managed and would never have the opportnity to attack another dog because I am always very aware of whats going on.

    But, I wouldnt take them to a dog park...well Barney I might (hes been before), but never Pippi...she would attack everything, for no reason.

    Its weird though actually, coz she does not react to the dog over the back fence at all despite being able to see him, yet she reacts to the one at the side. Dunno why

  10. #110
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    I am not going to muzzle Oskar, we have excellent days where he can be offleash at the beach and he will be so well behaved. Other days all it takes is for another dog to rub him up the wrong way and the poor bugger has to go on the leash, because we are being the responsible ones and want to prevent anything further....some people have let their dog have a go at him and they have never apologised, there are some real rude bastards out there that should not have dogs or take them to a public place. Grrrrr, jeez it makes me angry!!

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