Page 10 of 12 FirstFirst ... 89101112 LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 116

Thread: Scary dogs?

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sunshine coast Qld
    Posts
    1,121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by newfsie View Post
    no dog ever deserves to be attacked...I am only trying to explain why and how dogs are dogs....they are not human and have their own rules/manner/behaviour. And when they do something, we must not instantly blame the aggressor either. We must not humanize dogs, because they are not human and do not know human rules......That is why education is so important..........I spend hours with my beginners/puppy classes, explaining what could happen and why. I hope to make people aware, why some things happen. I actually think we just need to realise that dogs often don't do things because they are aggressive, but more often because they are scared.

    That is why in a dog to dog fight, I often believe we cannot lay blame.


    You know the funny thing is if a roaming cat attacks another cat and causes severe injury....No-one goes out to get this "aggressive" cat to be PTS. If a cat wacks (with all those claws) or bites a human, no-one goes out to get this "aggressive" cat. If a cat goes into your yard and say kills your budgie or just a bird in your yard.........No-one rings the Council to have this cat PTS. Cats are allowed to be cats...They are always excused. Whilst dogs have to be as perfect as we do not even expect people to be.....Just think of how many kids bully kids and get away with it. Being a dog is pretty tough nowadays
    I uderstand Newfsie you dont feel dogs deserve to be attacked and I really appreciate your valuable input on helping me understand doggy lauguage and the should and shouldnt do's when out, but not everyone here shares that view and the questions were more my wondering why they felt that way.

    And your certainly right about cats they do get away with "animal behaviours", but i think the differece is, we dont take them out to play with others and expect them to behave properly....or do we?
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  2. #92
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Toowoomba, QLD
    Posts
    1,223

    Default

    So we were at the new park today with my dogs and my friend with one of her Rottweilers (her bitch is in heat so she only bought her male). A couple came with their 2 dogs and all the dogs got along and were playing well and then the couple's friend came with another male rottweiler, my friend put her's on the leash straight away (he's so gentle towards other dogs) and walked up to the man to ask if his Rotty was alright around similar dogs (he seemed okay around all the other smaller dogs) but as she approached this other rotty lunged towards her dog and started barking agressively etc and the man said to not come near. So we had to spend the rest of the time at the park with her dog on the leash as this man was standing with his dog on the leash talking to his friends against the fence. We wanted to go and ask if he was able to stand outside the fence and talk to his friends so her dog was able to get off the leash and keep playing but didn't want to incase it sounded rude... would it have been?
    It did annoy me that this man had a somewhat DA dog at the off-leash park and was preventing somebody with a very friendly dog from letting their dog off the leash and having a good time.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    4,292

    Default

    All these stories just demonstrate how much of an impact socialising a dog has, don't they. Not just on the dog itself and its owner, but on everyone else. If only there was a way to make sure that everyone who got a pup did this, it would make life so much easier for all dogs and their owners.

    My previous dog wasn't properly socialised and I was pretty clueless when I got her as an adolescent.

    Which is why "must get on with other dogs" was at the top of my priority list when I was looking for a new rescue dog. And wow, what a difference it makes! It was so strange at first to not have to always be super alert for other dogs and ready to intervene on walks. And Banjo does more than just being friendly with dogs. If she senses any sort of grumpiness, she will just walk away and not make any attempt to get near the other dog. I can't take any credit for that, that's how I got her. I just try to make sure now that I take her for walks where there are other dogs regularly enough so she doesn't lose that skill.

    I can highly recommend to call your dog away from other dogs regularly as an exercise when you're training recall. Or to train them to ask for permission before they go greet a dog. If you make sure that you can then allow the dog to go say hi in the majority of cases, they will get used to it and it may save you a lot of trouble one day.

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,583

    Default

    But my concern here is "i didnt know that" was the rule, and millions of people in Australia wouldnt know thats the rules.
    This is one reason why I think owning a dog should require a basic licence test. A would be dog owner should know the basic facts of dog ownership - and this is the law in most states. Councils do provide brochures about this, but it seems lots of people think they don't need to read them or be familiar with their state law. And when it comes to the law - we're supposed to know. All of them. Which is completely stupid but that's how it is.

    1. You do not let your dog off lead in a public place eg footpaths - unless there is some sign or local law that says you can. Whether or not you have voice control over your dog 100% - does not make an exemption.

    2. You pick up after your dog. Especially in public places, but also at home - unless you live on a farm that is so huge that there will be no accumulation of dog poo. There's two laws that cover this - state law on companion animals - pick up after your dog in public places. And Animal welfare acts, keep your dog in a clean environment.

    3. You do not allow your dog - no matter how friendly to charge up to another dog or person inc children or livestock aninal. This is considered harrassment. You don't know how any of these creatures feel about your dog until you have a discussion with them and get agreement for the greeting to take place. It's not just about giving Dog Aggressive dogs enough space, there's heaps of other reasons you should not allow this.

    So those with friendly dogs, or those dogs who are a bit snappy but would NEVER instigate a full on attack (not growl or snap) will approach a dog, and it could be attacked (not growl or snap) in an instant by a known DA dog, and could very well kill or injure the dog...wouldnt a muzzle stop that if the dog is a known DA dog, isnt that the resonsible thing to do?
    If I don't know you or your dog - how am I supposed to know what its intentions are. This is how dogs get "dog aggressive" - they get attacked or hurt by dogs that do the direct charge. You don't know the state of health of the dog your dog is approaching. If it has sore spots, bad joints or is in rehab - being charged at - even invited to play - is not good for it even if it is willing to reciprocate.

    If I did have a dog that was prone to attack first and ask questions later - I would muzzle her if I went out, because, I want to protect her from the majority of Australian dog owners who don't have a clue what their responsibilites are until it's too late. And if my dog was big enough to do serious damage to a small dog or child - I know better to be safe than be in a "he said she said" legal battle for my dog's life. In the end it doesn't matter who was right or what actually happened, only what you can prove.

    I do have a grovel dog. I do let her approach other dogs that I don't know that are also off lead. She drops to a crawl at least 2m out and waits for them to come and sniff her and then rolls over. It's only failed to work a couple of times. Both with Rotti crosses. One chomped her on the foot - possibly out of a frustrated desire to play and the other dog stomped on her - so she promptly got up and told it off and it backed off.

    Any times I have seen onlead dogs, grab and shake other onlead dogs walking past
    I've never seen this. It would depend on how much loose lead each dog had. There should not be enough for either dog to reach the other and they should be on opposite sides of their respective owners. If I knew I had a DA dog, I would body block my dog from the other (as well as the muzzle).

    When coming up to dogs I don't know on the footpath, my dog does not have enough lead to do this and if we can step off the path we do. And I get her to do a drop stay. And I pay attention to the body language of the dog and owner. If dog or owner looks worried or frightened, we keep well out of the way.

    If the DA dog has a muzzle....it will always have as much personal space as it needs as people will rightly give it a wide berth, and no one is hurt.
    Have you ever had a dog that seriously attacked a dog?
    Sensible people - the ones that know their dog rules - this would probably be true. But stupid people do stupid things, like allow their three yo toddler approach and try to stick its fingers through the gaps in the muzzle - yes I've seen this happen and despite us screaming at the parents they seemed unconcerned - like the metal muzzle would somehow protect their child from being whacked with the muzzle or jumped on by a big dog with claws. And heaven help us if we touched their child, all we could do is drag the dog away from the child faster than the child could approach.

    I have been responsible for a dog that would chase anything that moved, and scare the crap out of other dogs that were rude. I don't remember him doing any serious damage but we put a muzzle on him out in public in an attempt to get people to keep their distance but they just assumed he couldn't hurt them wearing a muzzle - but this wasn't true. He couldn't kill them but he could certainly hurt them.

    I am guessing Hyacinth you are not a big fan of SWF
    Mostly I'm not a big fan of irresponsible owners and there do seem to be a higher percentage of them with SWF mixed breeds, Labs, and poodle crosses.

    I could imagine owning a Papillion some day, or a tenterfield or JRT (not that those are very fluffy) and I like Japanese Spitz. I'm not a big fan of very hairy, or slobbery. And I do like clever dogs even though that can mean more challenges.

    And it's no good yelling "my dog's friendly" if the other dog is not or is in rehab or whatever.

    Dog Aggressive dogs should not be off lead in fully fenced off lead parks with other dogs. Those parks have their own rules and all dogs play nice is usually one of them.

    Bottom line is dogs and their owners cannot tell the difference between a dangerous dog approach and a rude friendly dog approach until it's way too late.

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Bunbury
    Posts
    1,378

    Default

    Hmm. Mags is 15 weeks old so we haven't been walking our beach long as dog owners.
    Our section is not very used so we meet maybe 2 or 3 during the walk.
    In the last 2 days Mags went to greet a bullie and nearly got her head bitten off ( fortunately both on a lead)
    Next day she went up to greet a large amstaff ( I think) who responded playfully with tail wagging until the owner pulled it up and then it snarled at her. ( dumb man) then walked off leaving a giant pile of turds nearby still steaming..
    Being the princess she is ( convinced EVERYONE loves her passionately) she wasn't traumatised but slightly confused at their lack of manners.
    I get that some dogs are snappy and have their own issues but why don't people just put a light muzzle on them so everyone can feel safe.
    A normal dog would surely recognize a puppy as no threat? I don't blame the dogs but the owners are jerks.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sunshine coast Qld
    Posts
    1,121

    Default

    Hyacinth

    This is one reason why I think owning a dog should require a basic licence test. A would be dog owner should know the basic facts of dog ownership - and this is the law in most states. Councils do provide brochures about this, but it seems lots of people think they don't need to read them or be familiar with their state law. And when it comes to the law - we're supposed to know. All of them. Which is completely stupid but that's how it is.

    That was my point, unless your passionate about dog training and behaviour, people are not generally aware that a friendly dog must never approach any other dog, even in OFF LEASH AREAS, without you asking permission first as you suggest, because it is considered rude, and may deserve an attack as you suggested before.

    Most council sites i have read suggest a certain behaviour in OFF LEASH areas where dogs should never harrass, intimidate, attack or annoy other dogs, they also suggest that known DA dogs not be taken into off leash areas.

    In off leash areas i go to, while vigilent, people just let there dogs approach each other and play, the behaviourists i now know say so this is wrong.............but not everyone in Australia has got that memo...so they assume in an OFF LEAD area, no one will bring a dog aggressive dog...even on lead!

    I have had a dog that became DA after an an attack at an OFF lead park through no fault of my dog. I would NEVER put another dog in that situation, she was never off lead where there were other dogs, and never on lead in off lead areas, because not everyone knows the rules, or if you do,even a split second of not watching your dog running up to mine...could have resulted in mine killing it. And i would never take that chance....and certainly wouldnt just assume "you should of kept it away...too bad attitude...i would be devestated, no matter whos fault it was....its not right.


    If I don't know you or your dog - how am I supposed to know what its intentions are. This is how dogs get "dog aggressive" - they get attacked or hurt by dogs that do the direct charge. You don't know the state of health of the dog your dog is approaching. If it has sore spots, bad joints or is in rehab - being charged at - even invited to play - is not good for it even if it is willing to reciprocate.


    Dogs shouldnt do the direct charge, and if a dog attacks mine, i will do whatever it takes to protect my dog. Even friendly but full on approaches will frighten timid dogs, or may even push them to lash out if they feel threatened, but it will happen because people think there dog will do no harm, and according to my new found information...it is up to you to protect your dog, that dosent mean letting it attack another dog. Wack the rude dog with a stick, kick it..whatever it takes.

    And if you are worried by a rude dog approaching that may have a disease..........you probably shouldnt have you dog in a public area where dogs are allowed.

    If I did have a dog that was prone to attack first and ask questions later - I would muzzle her if I went out, because, I want to protect her from the majority of Australian dog owners who don't have a clue what their responsibilites are until it's too late. And if my dog was big enough to do serious damage to a small dog or child - I know better to be safe than be in a "he said she said" legal battle for my dog's life. In the end it doesn't matter who was right or what actually happened, only what you can prove.

    I do have a grovel dog. I do let her approach other dogs that I don't know that are also off lead. She drops to a crawl at least 2m out and waits for them to come and sniff her and then rolls over. It's only failed to work a couple of times. Both with Rotti crosses. One chomped her on the foot - possibly out of a frustrated desire to play and the other dog stomped on her - so she promptly got up and told it off and it backed off.


    That was the question I asked before,if you have a known DA dog..should it be muzzled if taken to on or off lead (leashed)areas where there are other dogs, I suggested YES without any excuses because there will always and its both better to be safe than sorry and just plain responsible behaviour from a DA owner.


    Sensible people - the ones that know their dog rules - this would probably be true. But stupid people do stupid things, like allow their three yo toddler approach and try to stick its fingers through the gaps in the muzzle - yes I've seen this happen and despite us screaming at the parents they seemed unconcerned - like the metal muzzle would somehow protect their child from being whacked with the muzzle or jumped on by a big dog with claws. And heaven help us if we touched their child, all we could do is drag the dog away from the child faster than the child could approach.

    I have been responsible for a dog that would chase anything that moved, and scare the crap out of other dogs that were rude. I don't remember him doing any serious damage but we put a muzzle on him out in public in an attempt to get people to keep their distance but they just assumed he couldn't hurt them wearing a muzzle - but this wasn't true. He couldn't kill them but he could certainly hurt them.


    I can imagine a small child going up to a dog and playing with the muzzle but could never imagine parents allowing it. Again, its annoying and there will always be idiots and irresponsible "parents" and "dog owners" but in my opinion , responsible ownership and the knowledge your dog is dangerous stops children and dogs dying a horrible death, and a muzzle is a small price to pay.


    I've never seen this. It would depend on how much loose lead each dog had. There should not be enough for either dog to reach the other and they should be on opposite sides of their respective owners. If I knew I had a DA dog, I would body block my dog from the other (as well as the muzzle).
    When coming up to dogs I don't know on the footpath, my dog does not have enough lead to do this and if we can step off the path we do. And I get her to do a drop stay. And I pay attention to the body language of the dog and owner. If dog or owner looks worried or frightened, we keep well out of the way.

    I saw this happen a few times in just a few weeks, one on lead attacking another onlead. I ALWAYS give my dogs a wide berth of any dog on lead unless the owner instigates a meeting first probably because i know idiots take DA dogs out because ive seen it....but again, one small distraction while passing another dog could see your dog attack another. IMO, if you KNOW the dogs aggressive, it should have a muzzle...no excuses.
    Last edited by cavalierqld; 06-25-2012 at 02:31 PM.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sunshine coast Qld
    Posts
    1,121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    This is one reason why I think owning a dog should require a basic licence test. A would be dog owner should know the basic facts of dog ownership - and this is the law in most states. Councils do provide brochures about this, but it seems lots of people think they don't need to read them or be familiar with their state law. And when it comes to the law - we're supposed to know. All of them. Which is completely stupid but that's how it is.

    1. You do not let your dog off lead in a public place eg footpaths - unless there is some sign or local law that says you can. Whether or not you have voice control over your dog 100% - does not make an exemption.

    2. You pick up after your dog. Especially in public places, but also at home - unless you live on a farm that is so huge that there will be no accumulation of dog poo. There's two laws that cover this - state law on companion animals - pick up after your dog in public places. And Animal welfare acts, keep your dog in a clean environment.

    3. You do not allow your dog - no matter how friendly to charge up to another dog or person inc children or livestock aninal. This is considered harrassment. You don't know how any of these creatures feel about your dog until you have a discussion with them and get agreement for the greeting to take place. It's not just about giving Dog Aggressive dogs enough space, there's heaps of other reasons you should not allow this.



    If I don't know you or your dog - how am I supposed to know what its intentions are. This is how dogs get "dog aggressive" - they get attacked or hurt by dogs that do the direct charge. You don't know the state of health of the dog your dog is approaching. If it has sore spots, bad joints or is in rehab - being charged at - even invited to play - is not good for it even if it is willing to reciprocate.

    If I did have a dog that was prone to attack first and ask questions later - I would muzzle her if I went out, because, I want to protect her from the majority of Australian dog owners who don't have a clue what their responsibilites are until it's too late. And if my dog was big enough to do serious damage to a small dog or child - I know better to be safe than be in a "he said she said" legal battle for my dog's life. In the end it doesn't matter who was right or what actually happened, only what you can prove.

    I do have a grovel dog. I do let her approach other dogs that I don't know that are also off lead. She drops to a crawl at least 2m out and waits for them to come and sniff her and then rolls over. It's only failed to work a couple of times. Both with Rotti crosses. One chomped her on the foot - possibly out of a frustrated desire to play and the other dog stomped on her - so she promptly got up and told it off and it backed off.


    I've never seen this. It would depend on how much loose lead each dog had. There should not be enough for either dog to reach the other and they should be on opposite sides of their respective owners. If I knew I had a DA dog, I would body block my dog from the other (as well as the muzzle).

    When coming up to dogs I don't know on the footpath, my dog does not have enough lead to do this and if we can step off the path we do. And I get her to do a drop stay. And I pay attention to the body language of the dog and owner. If dog or owner looks worried or frightened, we keep well out of the way.





    Sensible people - the ones that know their dog rules - this would probably be true. But stupid people do stupid things, like allow their three yo toddler approach and try to stick its fingers through the gaps in the muzzle - yes I've seen this happen and despite us screaming at the parents they seemed unconcerned - like the metal muzzle would somehow protect their child from being whacked with the muzzle or jumped on by a big dog with claws. And heaven help us if we touched their child, all we could do is drag the dog away from the child faster than the child could approach.

    I have been responsible for a dog that would chase anything that moved, and scare the crap out of other dogs that were rude. I don't remember him doing any serious damage but we put a muzzle on him out in public in an attempt to get people to keep their distance but they just assumed he couldn't hurt them wearing a muzzle - but this wasn't true. He couldn't kill them but he could certainly hurt them.


    Mostly I'm not a big fan of irresponsible owners and there do seem to be a higher percentage of them with SWF mixed breeds, Labs, and poodle crosses.

    I could imagine owning a Papillion some day, or a tenterfield or JRT (not that those are very fluffy) and I like Japanese Spitz. I'm not a big fan of very hairy, or slobbery. And I do like clever dogs even though that can mean more challenges.

    And it's no good yelling "my dog's friendly" if the other dog is not or is in rehab or whatever.

    Dog Aggressive dogs should not be off lead in fully fenced off lead parks with other dogs. Those parks have their own rules and all dogs play nice is usually one of them.

    Bottom line is dogs and their owners cannot tell the difference between a dangerous dog approach and a rude friendly dog approach until it's way too late.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    All these stories just demonstrate how much of an impact socialising a dog has, don't they. Not just on the dog itself and its owner, but on everyone else. If only there was a way to make sure that everyone who got a pup did this, it would make life so much easier for all dogs and their owners.

    My previous dog wasn't properly socialised and I was pretty clueless when I got her as an adolescent.

    Which is why "must get on with other dogs" was at the top of my priority list when I was looking for a new rescue dog. And wow, what a difference it makes! It was so strange at first to not have to always be super alert for other dogs and ready to intervene on walks. And Banjo does more than just being friendly with dogs. If she senses any sort of grumpiness, she will just walk away and not make any attempt to get near the other dog. I can't take any credit for that, that's how I got her. I just try to make sure now that I take her for walks where there are other dogs regularly enough so she doesn't lose that skill.

    I can highly recommend to call your dog away from other dogs regularly as an exercise when you're training recall. Or to train them to ask for permission before they go greet a dog. If you make sure that you can then allow the dog to go say hi in the majority of cases, they will get used to it and it may save you a lot of trouble one day.
    Your so right Beloz, socialization is mega important in a dog life i think for them and for you! It really is a pleasure to have a friendly social dog you can take anywhere you like..without being on edge.

    But that could end with one attack, and your dog will then most likely become DA himself.

    I have had the experience of a lovely sweet loving well behaved labrador turn into a dog we could no longer take out without a muzzle.

    Hence my concern about comments here suggesting ..you need to keep your dog away from mine because its dog aggressive and deserves what it gets.

    Like Banjo, I cant take the credit for Mollies amazing ability to have perfect doggy manners and can sense unstable dogs and dosent even approach them. But like you, I feel an overwhelming sense that I have to somehow allow her to keep socializing (not so much after reading the comments here) and protect her from people bringing unstable, agressive dogs to dog areas.

    Hyacinth, and the behaviourist links I looked suggested we should never allow our dogs to approach another unless we ask permission first (yes in off lead)...so that would appear to rule out off leash socializing because every dog approaches others.

    And yes recall is very important way you can protect your dog, but i find in off lead areas...it only works for some dogs and those who get fixated dont listened anyway...lol

    It would be great if everyone has studied the behaviour of dogs, which is really the total oppostite from what you maybe have imagined the right way, and understands and impliments these stratagies...that would be the perfect scenario , but not everyone got the memo.... I know i got it a loT later than other people here... But better late than never.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sunshine coast Qld
    Posts
    1,121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by farrview View Post
    Hmm. Mags is 15 weeks old so we haven't been walking our beach long as dog owners.
    Our section is not very used so we meet maybe 2 or 3 during the walk.
    In the last 2 days Mags went to greet a bullie and nearly got her head bitten off ( fortunately both on a lead)
    Next day she went up to greet a large amstaff ( I think) who responded playfully with tail wagging until the owner pulled it up and then it snarled at her. ( dumb man) then walked off leaving a giant pile of turds nearby still steaming..
    Being the princess she is ( convinced EVERYONE loves her passionately) she wasn't traumatised but slightly confused at their lack of manners.
    I get that some dogs are snappy and have their own issues but why don't people just put a light muzzle on them so everyone can feel safe.
    A normal dog would surely recognize a puppy as no threat? I don't blame the dogs but the owners are jerks.
    Agree, I would be happy to make that legislation, if you know your dog is DA...you must use a muzzle.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Southern NSW
    Posts
    3,784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    Agree, I would be happy to make that legislation, if you know your dog is DA...you must use a muzzle.
    The only thing wrong with that is a lot of people who say their dog is friendly actually have the aggressive running in dog and make the nervous non-aggressive dog retaliate with aggression.
    This is a very difficult subject...........Now you can maybe understand why I am not really keen on some off lead Parks.

    It is very dificult to make rulings, becuase first you would have to have it all on video, for someone to assess it to tell you which dog was the aggressor.....this so called friendly dog running at other dogs is not always friendly.he might look it to his owner, but is not
    Pets are forever

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Bunbury
    Posts
    1,378

    Default

    The whole etiquette things is a bit confusing. At the moment if a dog is on leash I put Mags back on the leash. If they are off leash I make a snap judgement about what to do as she will greet EVERYBODY canine or human so we are working on how to back her off a bit.
    We seem to be meeting friendly large dogs that don't know their size so she ooften comes home covered in slobber but quite happy. It is all a bit tricky, it would be so much easier if she was a bit snobby.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •