Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: Just simply wont "go outside"

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    York Peninsual South Aust
    Posts
    34

    Default Just simply wont "go outside"

    4 month old lab who has up till now been pretty good. Sits on command, and stays. Doesn't grab at food. I can take it away. Starting to learn to walk at heel. Going to classes. BUT. Is really "trying me on". When I decide I want her to go outside she openly defies me and my husband. Has become quite a battle. Originally tried the enticement with treats. At times will follow me out if I go out but if she doesn't want to go WELL has now reached the stage that has become confrontational. Husband has grabbed by collar and dragged her out and now I am faced with problem that I cannot clip a lead on her at this time as she pulls backs and nips. At times to the point of near aggression--this I DO NOT WANT. Have tried to do the stand up and hold my space, but she really thinks that it is just a game with her the winner as there is no way that I can control her. She is so spaced out she will no longer sit for me on command and I do not want to lose that. This latest time--I did the turn away and left her to calm down on her own and when settled clipped her lead and led her outside with no problems. Any suggestions people?? I am faced with a left shoulder operation in middle May and would like to think I have a bit more control of her by then. Other than this she is not too bad for a 4 month lab pup! We are starting to enjoy walks without pulling; the coming to heel for me is only a little glimmer but there is definite improvement and we are enjoying what we are doing in classes.
    Many thanks--Dusker and "Missy"
    I should add--she is not left home alone very often as we are retired--she is not destroying the garden--there is no evidence that she does not like it outside, an both my husband and I spend a lot of time with her when we are outside etc.
    Last edited by Dusker; 04-18-2012 at 10:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Geelong, Vic
    Posts
    871

    Default

    4 month old puppies cannot be truly aggressive unless there is something seriously wrong in their mental wiring. They can be right little brats though and unlike children who will swing their fists in a defiant tantrum a dog uses its teeth. She's trying to get one up on you and it's working very well for her.

    I think for your situation I would take her ration of food for the day and hand feed the dog. Go by a principle nothing in life is free. You want some food, you behave as soon as I tell you. Dont behave, no food. Simple. You need to be very firm with her and dont give in. If you want her to go outside, call her once, if she runs off just ignore her and go about your business. Do as much of your feeding/training outside as you can which will encourage her to go out and show it's not that bad. As for clipping the lead, same thing, get her to sit, reach down and pat her FIRST around the face and neck, THEN treat. Desensitise her to being touched around that area. Only a treat after permitting to be touched not before.

    You just have to outsmart the little munchkin at her own game she's just a baby at the moment give her a little time and patience.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    York Peninsual South Aust
    Posts
    34

    Default

    Thank you for your quick reply. I hadn't thought of feeding her outside! duh! I can see that you are confirming that they are tantrums and that I have been feeding them as such. Will work at making the going out side a reason for food for one. Will also increase some of her outdoor play things -- rather than the cat indoors!
    I think the mere fact of feeding her out will be a big help and may even break that cycle. Then I can work on the desensitising etc as that only occurs when I want her to go out. This has only started in the last week, so hopefully can nip in the bud (no pun intended). Will break her meals up in small portions in her bowl and get her out in that manner--many thanks. If I want to get her out at other times I will clip a lead and lead her out with me as the leader. Will let you know how I go. Little adorable devil.
    My understanding then is in most cases--undesirable behaviour--dont feed it--turn away from it??? Or is that too simplistic?
    Many thanks

  4. #4

    Default

    Someone I know says it very well.

    WE have control over their WHOLE life, why can't we get them to behave.

    So like Nehkbet said, Nothing in life is free.

    You want to go for a walk, you sit and you wait quietly, calmly and patiently while I clip the lead on, don't do that you don't get a walk.
    You want your dinner/brekky you need to do this and this and this to earn your food
    You want attention ask politely (ie sit and wait)
    You want to get up on the couch/bed ask politely (ie: sit or drop)

    When you are not listened to turn around without another word and walk away. If it is their food she is working for, no food until the next meal. If it is attention she is after, pretend she doesn't exist.

    Have you tried just going outside without bothering to try to get her out there, leaving the door open and pretending you are having a ball all by yourself outside? I wonder if that would coax her out....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Geelong, Vic
    Posts
    871

    Default

    you can ignore things to a degree, but you need to use your head. What will your pup learn if you just keep turning your back on bad behavior - nothing. Whenever you want to change a 'bad' behavior (and by bad it's simply what we deem bad, not the dog remember that) you need to somehow make it disappear. This is either done through negative punishment (remove the good thing, eg you're attention) or positive punishment (the application of a punisher - what this is depends on the dog. Ranges from sound, correction, etc) Then you immediately have to show the dog what you DO want in order to attract a rewarding outcome. Redirect the energy into useful things you do want the dog to do, reward them fairly but with set parameters of what you want and the dog will learn very quickly and without fuss.

    Your dog is still a baby. She needs help and consistency. I dont believe in a totally hands off method, dogs need to be touched and manipulated a LOT when younger so there is no trouble later particularly with the large/giant breeds. If your dog needs help to get into position, help it gently. Luring only gets you so far but actually helping the dog with its lead and collar can make things very clear.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    York Peninsual South Aust
    Posts
    34

    Default

    Thank you; you have given me food for thought! I know that consistency will be the clear message. I have just spent some time outside with her. Took her outside with her some of her lunch--no problems. Left her. Then went outside with her and did some watering. In the past she would lunge at the hose but we have that fixed with "leave it". We then have a bit of a play and then she stays outside until I am ready to bring her in. She sits patiently at the door, she knows she wont be let in until sitting. She stays whilst door opened and told to come in. I will work on your great suggestions--thanks people. And yes I know only 4 months' old--now to train my husband to follow the same strategy! Really appreciate your really quick responses.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,581

    Default

    You might find some really basic clicker training would help too. You don't need a clicker, you can just use the word "yes" and pair it with a treat "charge the clicker" ie when she sits, say "yes" and give her the treat (repeat about 5 times). So "yes" becomes an instant way of giving her a good feeling (warm fuzzy? transfered feeling from the food feel good) and letting her know she's pleasing you and doing what you want.

    My fav clicker training site is Gary Wilkes Click Start

    And I'm just getting into a book called Control Unleashed by Lesley McDevitt that talks you through how to train a dog with a clicker/yes. It includes the "look at that game" which is really good for dealing with doggy distractions.

    I really like Nekhbet's advice. Feed outside. Make good things happen outside. Make sure that the things that happen outside for her are at least as good or better than what happens inside. Labs are supposed to love retrieving games, so a bit of fetch outside might be her special game for outside. And maybe some massage - only do it outside - so she loves being outside.

    Then when she's super keen about outside, you can do some fun things inside too when you want (winter's coming). Ie the balance will always be changing so you just adapt what you do where to get the balance where you want it.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 04-18-2012 at 01:33 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    SA
    Posts
    945

    Default

    Hi Dusker,

    I'm not quite clear what exactly she doesn't like... leaving the house or having the lead clipped on? I.e. does she follow you outside off leash? And how does she react if you clip on the lead with no intention to go out? You said she is just learning how to heel - perhaps she dreads the training and now connects clipping on the leash with 'no fun at all'.

    I have to admit I'm having trouble imagining a pup that doesn't prefer playing outdoors to sitting at home. So I'd be much more interested in the 'why' rather than on the 'how to fix it' at this stage.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    York Peninsual South Aust
    Posts
    34

    Default

    I am just so thankful to the great responses to my queries.
    To answer Margoo first. She just doesn't like to be asked to go outside on command. This is one coddled dog I know, but that is what we like about having a dog. She is indeed an inside dog, sleeps on the floor beside us (the cat is in the bed). We have the toilet training down pretty pat--she would wake us at night and we would take her out no problems. Now when we want to take her out to instigate the process or to put her out for any reason ie we are going out--unless we have appropriate teaser of food she just flatly refuses. This became a bit of a "war" especially of a night time when we wanted her to classically empty her tank before bed. Hubby got a bit cross and grabbed her by her collar and hauled her out and now she is collar shy when placed in these positions ie when feeling as though she is being asked to do something she does not want to (like a 2 yo). She has no problem at other times ie walking and for training. I mix the two up and we end with a game etc so on a good note. eg we have just come in from what was in reality a training session which started with chasing the ball, then heeling and a short walk on a loose lead, then sitting, dropping, staying, coming etc and she was having a great time--admittedly food driven. But she was happy. No cross words. Inside is probably more fun as she interacts with my cat +++. She is not a garden destroyer and seems quite happy when outside. Has plenty to play with and does so and has a large area to roam in. I have been walking in and out more often today and left the door open for her to follow etc and that has worked a lot better. Have to keep an eye on the cat as he is an inside cat! Gawd I want one to go out and the other to stay in.
    Hyacinth, yes I am certainly taking on board what Nekhbet has advised. I will now re read what you have said about the clicker and the word yes etc. That will be my home work for tonight.
    Really value for help people.
    Cheers
    Heather

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Southern NSW
    Posts
    3,784

    Default

    you have had some really sound advise.like you said also train your hubby now to get consistency and not to scare her....if you keep having the problem with the lead, you can maybe for a little while just leave a short lead on, one that does not have a loop, so it cannot get caught up. So that you can just grab that.........Also every time you have her coming to you and she is given a treat for whatever she has done, just grab her collar gently and give her the treat. Make to collar grab a fun experience. It is so important to teach young puppies, but not to frighten them.
    Sounds like you are putting in a lot of effort, that will pay off
    Pets are forever

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •