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Thread: Opinions on zap collars?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bec View Post
    I don't understand why a citronella collar would be easier to fit and use without professional guidance than an electric anti-bark collar?

    Citronella collars have a much lower rate of success so regardless of if the OP should be doing other things first, if she is going to use a collar, why not use the one that is more likely to work.

    I never recommend citronella collars because they have a much lower rate of success and aren't as effective because the aversive (the smell of citronella) stays on the dog's coat long after the dog has stopped barking, IMO that is unfair and means the correction isn't clear enough to the dog.
    Because incorrectly used you can destroy a dog (Temperament and trust) with an E-collar and with a citronella collar it just did not work and was only time and money wasted.........Timing and experience is required with an E-collar and they should only be used by people who know what they are doing and definitely not on a puppy.
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  2. #72
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    Timing training by ecollar supplier:
    take 1 tennis ball, 1 ball point pen that clicks on/off
    Bounce ball, at exact time it hits the floor, you click the pen. Note how shit your timing is? The e collar requires the handler to be trained to get great timing. or you will be applying stimulus at wrong time and punishing some other behaviour, as they come thick and fast in dogs. You have to be spot on to get it right. Its not easy.
    this part alone took me a month to improve before i could go anywhere near my dog.

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by newfsie View Post
    Because incorrectly used you can destroy a dog (Temperament and trust) with an E-collar and with a citronella collar it just did not work and was only time and money wasted.........Timing and experience is required with an E-collar and they should only be used by people who know what they are doing and definitely not on a puppy.
    And considering citronella is a poison, and dogs can find it more aversive than an electric collar how is it not just as important to ensure it is also used properly? Citronella collars work on the same principle (adding an aversive to stop the dog from barking) except the aversive stays long after the dog has stopped barking, hardly harmless to the dog like you are implying.

    I am not saying the OP using an anti bark collar of any description is right or wrong but if she is going to do it as should have her facts straight.


    ETA: Personally, it wouldn't bother me if someone used an e-collar properly on a puppy. If it is used properly, it isn't going to hurt them, the stim will just be a cue for the behaviour. I also don't think (as someone who uses a remote training e-collar) that they are hard to use, you just need to understand how they work and how to use them and obviously this is best done by having an experienced training show you how to use them. We teach a lot of inexperienced owners how to use them and it's not that hard to get right when you are shown how to do it.

    If the OP is adamant about using a training collar I think they would be better off getting a good quality bark collar not an e-collar, it removes their timing from the equation. Obviously the best solution for her is to have some lessons with a trainer who can help her with all the issues she's having.
    Last edited by Bec; 04-27-2012 at 07:07 AM.

  4. #74
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    I tried a citronella bark collar on our first GSD. Did bugger all. He just sneezed a bit at first.

  5. #75
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    I tried a citronella collar on a past dog, when I also had other dogs. I found it helped a bit with the barking, but if the dogs were together, the others also copped a snout full and that just wasnt right.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bec View Post
    I don't understand why a citronella collar would be easier to fit and use without professional guidance than an electric anti-bark collar?

    Citronella collars have a much lower rate of success so regardless of if the OP should be doing other things first, if she is going to use a collar, why not use the one that is more likely to work.

    I never recommend citronella collars because they have a much lower rate of success and aren't as effective because the aversive (the smell of citronella) stays on the dog's coat long after the dog has stopped barking, IMO that is unfair and means the correction isn't clear enough to the dog.
    The reason I suggested the citronella collar is because the collar she had purchased (as she mentioned later in the thread) was not an automated correction. It was the e-collar that requires the handler to correct. Timing has to be perfect and at the right level or it will be useless and may in fact do more harm than good. These collars are not for novice dog owners. Yes, the citronella collars can allow the smell to linger and therefore some may see that as more punishment that is deserved. I don't recommend leaving the collars on when you are not home, as you can't monitor the behaviour of the dog.

    Collars, as with all training equipment, are suited to some dogs, where it may not be right for others. Some dogs may benefit more from the electronic, where others may have already been desensitized to neck related corrections. In these cases, I recommend the citronella as it is a correction relating to annoying odour rather than pain/stimulation. You can hire anti-bark collars from certain pet stores. You should see if this is an option for you. It will reduce your expense and you can test which collar is right for her.

    Also, Kelpielover, I never meant to insinuate that you failed your dog or that you should give her up. That was the last thing I was thinking. I think if you are willing to put in the work then you have every right to try every avenue to make your dog perfect.

    If barking at birds in the morning is the only problem you have, then there's no reason for you not to keep her.

  7. #77

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    I have a 18 month old Kelpie that has incredibly high energy. I have an E collar which I use to aid her training, and it works brilliantly. However it sounds to me like you need to wake up a bit earlier and take your dog for a big run, before she gets bored in the garden and starts chasing the birds. I ride my bike and have my dog (Val) running next to me. Only after she is tired and in a calm state of mind would I start training her with the collar. (although by that time she'd be too tired to want to chase anything!)

  8. #78

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    You are not going to fix this problem overnight and I think you need to point out to your mom that whilst you are trying to fix the problem, having the dog crated in the laundry/kitchen/garage wherever is preferable to the wrath of upset neighbours. Walking your dog, even 5ks is not sufficient exercise. Teach a retreave, buy a "Chuckit" and find an open field. You can then chuck a tennis ball until the dog has had enough - don't over strain your arm though as you will still need to raise your glass of an evening.
    Nev Allen
    Border River Pet Resort

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nev Allen View Post
    Teach a retreave, buy a "Chuckit" and find an open field. You can then chuck a tennis ball until the dog has had enough - don't over strain your arm though as you will still need to raise your glass of an evening.
    I know how to teach a retrieve but not everyone does. There are many different ways, from having two balls, to incorporating treats, not throwing it very far, shaping the behaviour by first teaching the dog to pick up/hold the ball in it's mouth.

    What's your favourite way or the way you've found most useful?

  10. #80

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    Have you not taught your dog "Gentle?" Anything little or very young. My lot won't even touch mice, as they are used to me bringing in everything and treating it as precious and as I type, they have 3 chooks in my tiled living room with them, as I listen to the news.

    You can also teach dogs not to chase cats and this should have been done very early on, as a puppy. 1000 times easier. Is it due to the cats inside that your dog isn't allowed in? It shouldn't be hard to teach your dog, "On your bed". If your dog sleeps quietly inside, you will have a much better relationship, with it and it won't start barking early. You could start with a crate in the house and regularly taken on lead, outside, for wees, etc. Make sure you get a large enough size for comfort, to stand and turn around and change position, full size.

    Surely you can reason with your mother and point out that you are both living with far greater inconvenience, now. If she knows to go in her bed, and she has a water bowl and you give her a loo break, last thing, before you go to sleep, she'll be no trouble and as she gets older, you won't have to lock the door, just tell her, "Go to bed". See if you can find a dog rescuer, locally, that has cats, and teaches the dogs to behave with them. You can explain your problem and at least donate the same amount of money to her/him, as you spent on that collar.

    Oh. I wouldn't use a zap collar and wouldn't waste my money on it.
    Last edited by Menageriemanor; 05-14-2012 at 06:27 PM.

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