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Thread: Opinions on zap collars?

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    melbourne australia
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    3,082

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    Kelpie lover. Reading your last post, you did your research, and 'thought' you could handle it. Reality suggests that you are having a hard time handling it.
    Working dogs are different to pet dogs, VASTLY different.
    Instead of viewing this from your needs/feelings/perspective, i ask you as a Kelpie lover, to consider things from the kelpies. Would she be happier with a stay at home owner? or being a "indoors' dog?

    Your options of what you can/cannot do are reduced as this is a working dog, further reduced by you being at your parents home who will not allow the dog indoors, and you not being available all day every day, at 21, your budget restricts you on what resources you can employ eg. animal behaviourist.

    A working dog is not for beginner dog owners. You say this is your first dog. I know that you have had previous dogs, but perhaps your parents were more in ownership mode with those than you were.

    You would not be 'getting rid' of your dog. You would be putting your dogs needs first, and your emotional needs second to that. This is what i call, responsible dog ownership. Ensuring that your dog gets the life it requires to be happy. Sometimes, we are not the best person to offer this life. That might be due to circumstances, age, income, environment.

    I once got a rottie from such a person as yourself. Great dog, a few issues like never came when called, dog aggressive. Owner just didn't have the time to put into his working dog, from working lines as his own business took off from his unit he lived in with the rottie?
    We took Kevin from this man who loved his dog to bits, and whilst it broke his heart to hand him over, we kept in touch with him, sent him xmas cards from Kevin and photos, i had the time, patience, SPACE, to keep such a dog safely occupied and trained him from scratch once more. Within 6 months, the dog was like a different dog. So calm and settled and always came when called, and would tolerate dogs walking past him. Never a dog friendly thing, but would show some manners and not try to eat anything on four legs crossing our path.

    On another aspect, Kevin 2, our second rottie, came with us when we had to move interstate to QLD from Vic. The fleas and the heat made my gorgeous boy go from supreme condition, to bald, red sores, irritable, unhappy. Despite lots of help from our vet, we couldnt get the flea allergy under control. I had to rehome him to cooler climate. This broke my heart too. But i found the best home i could for him. And i too received regular updates over the last remaining 3 yrs of his life with his lovely new home and family on Vic/NSW border.

    Dog ownership is tough, giving one up is tough. Best wishes for the resolution you both deserve.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    605

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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    Kelpie lover. Reading your last post, you did your research, and 'thought' you could handle it. Reality suggests that you are having a hard time handling it.
    Working dogs are different to pet dogs, VASTLY different.
    Instead of viewing this from your needs/feelings/perspective, i ask you as a Kelpie lover, to consider things from the kelpies. Would she be happier with a stay at home owner? or being a "indoors' dog?

    Your options of what you can/cannot do are reduced as this is a working dog, further reduced by you being at your parents home who will not allow the dog indoors, and you not being available all day every day, at 21, your budget restricts you on what resources you can employ eg. animal behaviourist.

    A working dog is not for beginner dog owners. You say this is your first dog. I know that you have had previous dogs, but perhaps your parents were more in ownership mode with those than you were.

    You would not be 'getting rid' of your dog. You would be putting your dogs needs first, and your emotional needs second to that. This is what i call, responsible dog ownership. Ensuring that your dog gets the life it requires to be happy. Sometimes, we are not the best person to offer this life. That might be due to circumstances, age, income, environment.

    I once got a rottie from such a person as yourself. Great dog, a few issues like never came when called, dog aggressive. Owner just didn't have the time to put into his working dog, from working lines as his own business took off from his unit he lived in with the rottie?
    We took Kevin from this man who loved his dog to bits, and whilst it broke his heart to hand him over, we kept in touch with him, sent him xmas cards from Kevin and photos, i had the time, patience, SPACE, to keep such a dog safely occupied and trained him from scratch once more. Within 6 months, the dog was like a different dog. So calm and settled and always came when called, and would tolerate dogs walking past him. Never a dog friendly thing, but would show some manners and not try to eat anything on four legs crossing our path.

    On another aspect, Kevin 2, our second rottie, came with us when we had to move interstate to QLD from Vic. The fleas and the heat made my gorgeous boy go from supreme condition, to bald, red sores, irritable, unhappy. Despite lots of help from our vet, we couldnt get the flea allergy under control. I had to rehome him to cooler climate. This broke my heart too. But i found the best home i could for him. And i too received regular updates over the last remaining 3 yrs of his life with his lovely new home and family on Vic/NSW border.

    Dog ownership is tough, giving one up is tough. Best wishes for the resolution you both deserve.
    Your probably right... It just makes me feel like crying now because it feels like i have failed her.
    No one loves you like your dog does.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Rural NSW
    Posts
    5,967

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    You know, we often have to learn these bloody hard lessons in life.
    I am 55now.
    When I was 24 I had my first son.
    I then got a black lab puppy knowing NOTHING of its needs even though my family had dogs all my life.
    That poor dog got far less attention than you have put into yours.
    I did no research (no internet back then)
    Mine was a bloody stupid choice for that time.
    Even though I loved the dog to bits I knew for her sake I would have to rehome her, and I did.

    She ended up having a wonderful long life.
    It hurt, it hurt a lot but I had to do it for the dog and in hindsight it was the best possible answer.

    You have tried. You have tried very hard and it is no fault of yours as you did try. Like me back then it was just a hell of a mismatch that neither of us knew till we had the dog in our lives.

    You will learn like I had to to take ALL into consideration including worst case scenarios for any pets we get.

    Hugs.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SE QLD
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    2,903

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelpielover View Post
    Your probably right... It just makes me feel like crying now because it feels like i have failed her.
    You haven't failed her at all. Some times thing just don't work out as expected. The first house my OH and I moved into that had a yard, we thought stupidly it would be a good idea to get a dog. We had only previously owned dogs with our parents when we were younger. There were give away puppies in the paper, Rotty cross GSD and we got one and called him Tyson. He was cute as a button! But we had no idea on what proper dog ownership entailed. The house we were living in only lasted for a month due to disagreements with housemates and we ended up having to move, we were moving into a unit because that was all we could afford and made the decision to give him away. Luckily my Mum and step dad ended up taking him and he is now has a happy life there. Giving him up was the best thing we could have done for him. When we were older and more responsible we got Harley.... probably still not educated enough though at the time! lol You live and you learn.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    se qld
    Posts
    836

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    Maybe contact Di Edwards at AWDRI -
    di.edwards@awdri.com.au
    Australian Working Dog Rescue

    They have a large network of foster carers (and potential new owners)
    in most states of Australia.
    Some of the carers have rural properties and sheep or cattle.
    They also work with Farmer Dave and the ADF.
    The foster carers tend to accept the breeds they are most familiar with and have
    successfully trained as working or companion dogs.
    I am a foster carer for them and have 2 ACDs here as I love the
    characteristics of the breed and can read them fairly well.
    One of my fosters is already adopted by a family in S.A. the other old feller I would
    like to keep him myself.
    Please consider this Rescue they do amazing work.
    p.s look up "Zeus" on facebook he has a wonderful story. Have tissues handy for the happy ending.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Pawfectionist View Post
    Well, I'd say that you really should have considered whether or not your dog was going to fit into your life/environment before you brought it home. If you own cats, you get a dog/breed that gets along with cats or one you can socialise with them from the beginning. If she's not house trained then I personally think that is a bigger problem than barking in the mornings, but I guess that only matters if you let it inside. Obviously I don't live at your house, so I'm not trying to make assumptions. I apologise if I offend in anyway.

    I'd say go with a spray collar before an E-collar. E-collars can't be used on your dog without supervision and training from a dog trainer, so if you want to use it, you will have to get professional help. If you get professional help, they'd probably advise trying other things before even thinking about using the E-collar. I think the best option right now is to take the E-collar back and swap it to a citronella spray collar. They are cheaper. Innotek is good, but there are also other brands out there.

    I'm sure there are other options to fix this problem, but from your original thread post, it seems that you just want a quick fix to stop the barking rather than coming up with an overall plan to stop the behaviour exhibited, hence my advice on the spray collar...?
    I don't understand why a citronella collar would be easier to fit and use without professional guidance than an electric anti-bark collar?

    Citronella collars have a much lower rate of success so regardless of if the OP should be doing other things first, if she is going to use a collar, why not use the one that is more likely to work.

    I never recommend citronella collars because they have a much lower rate of success and aren't as effective because the aversive (the smell of citronella) stays on the dog's coat long after the dog has stopped barking, IMO that is unfair and means the correction isn't clear enough to the dog.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    605

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    Quote Originally Posted by chubbsecurity View Post
    Maybe contact Di Edwards at AWDRI -
    di.edwards@awdri.com.au
    Australian Working Dog Rescue

    They have a large network of foster carers (and potential new owners)
    in most states of Australia.
    Some of the carers have rural properties and sheep or cattle.
    They also work with Farmer Dave and the ADF.
    The foster carers tend to accept the breeds they are most familiar with and have
    successfully trained as working or companion dogs.
    I am a foster carer for them and have 2 ACDs here as I love the
    characteristics of the breed and can read them fairly well.
    One of my fosters is already adopted by a family in S.A. the other old feller I would
    like to keep him myself.
    Please consider this Rescue they do amazing work.
    p.s look up "Zeus" on facebook he has a wonderful story. Have tissues handy for the happy ending.
    Oh yes i have that page liked on facebook, thank you for the help. I don't know what to do just yet i think i will see how it goes for a while. but if worst comes to worst i would definately look into that site.
    No one loves you like your dog does.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    605

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bec View Post
    I don't understand why a citronella collar would be easier to fit and use without professional guidance than an electric anti-bark collar?

    Citronella collars have a much lower rate of success so regardless of if the OP should be doing other things first, if she is going to use a collar, why not use the one that is more likely to work.

    I never recommend citronella collars because they have a much lower rate of success and aren't as effective because the aversive (the smell of citronella) stays on the dog's coat long after the dog has stopped barking, IMO that is unfair and means the correction isn't clear enough to the dog.
    I agree on that one bec, i have looked up all the different types of collars and i just don't think that would work with my girl she is to smart. lol.
    No one loves you like your dog does.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    724

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    Hi KelpieLover,

    I agree with Jadie, you haven't failed her ... owning a young dog is very hard sometimes, you have great days and not so great days and bloody awful days ...

    We went from two small male dogs (who both died last year) to a big female dog and some days I wonder if it's too much, she seems to be constant hard work but then she can also be the most loving beautiful girl ...

    Our dog now is not a barker which is fantastic after having two small barkers for so many years, it was very stressful, but Ruby can shred a dog bed, books, or anything she's not supposed to have to bite sized pieces if she's been left at home for a couple of days without being taken for an off-lead run to wear her out. She cleared our side fence very easily over Easter and now is being kept in a high fenced section until hubby gets it fixed and I didn't even think she could jump! On the other hand, she's very happy to sit on the couch with one of us for hours and sleep the whole day away ... she's great with people but plays very roughly with other dogs, it's similar to a rugby player tackling little old ladies, and that stresses me out no end so I don't let her play with smaller dogs, I hope that as she gets more mature she will calm down (insert nervous hysterial laugh) ... I take her to dog training and most weeks she is so excited the only thing she does is almost pull my arm out of its socket and she flies around horizontally at the end of the lead like a lunie ... some weeks I come home from training and my hands are red raw from the lead pulling through them and she collapses at home with this innocent baby face as if to say "wasn't that fun mum" and promptly falls asleep for the rest of the day ... she must take in what we're doing because she knows the commands and we do practice them at home a lot.

    Just see how you go, don't beat yourself up over it or get too upset, enjoy your dog and if you do have to end up re-homing her, you can check out any future families yourself to make sure she gets what she needs either yourself or through a good rescue group... Good luck whatever you do ...

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Southern NSW
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    3,784

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelpielover View Post
    Your probably right... It just makes me feel like crying now because it feels like i have failed her.
    If you had failed her you would not be looking for answers....working dogs are tough dogs to own in suburbia........
    Pets are forever

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