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Thread: My puppy is boring to train

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    di dee, as many dont use a clicker, and are able to scoop prizes in shcutzhund, i would have to disagree that use of words as a marker are confusing for a dog.

    Dogs are very smart, incredibly smart. And know my marker word "yes" and the word "ok" and "sit" and so on and so on.

    She is now getting faster with her responses. Lights up for a ball. And wont touch her food, sitting there with eye contact, as i mark the behaviour with "yes", and then dives at it, upon hearing her release word "ok".

    I know that she understands "yes" as 'that's right, keep doing what you are doing'. as i can guide her movements now with that word when tracking. When unsure, if i say 'yes' she keeps going. Similarly, both dogs also know the word "no". They will both give up searching on tracks, and change direction if told "no" when heading in wrong direction.

    Im sure there are dogs, that need the objective marker method, where no vocal intonation can be misconstrued by the dog. And perhaps for high level bomb detection, scent detection, sniffer dogs etc, where accuracy is paramount, perhaps you need to be stricter. But for me and my pets, "yes" seems to work fine.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernie View Post
    di dee, as many dont use a clicker, and are able to scoop prizes in shcutzhund, i would have to disagree that use of words as a marker are confusing for a dog.

    Dogs are very smart, incredibly smart. And know my marker word "yes" and the word "ok" and "sit" and so on and so on.

    She is now getting faster with her responses. Lights up for a ball. And wont touch her food, sitting there with eye contact, as i mark the behaviour with "yes", and then dives at it, upon hearing her release word "ok".

    I know that she understands "yes" as 'that's right, keep doing what you are doing'. as i can guide her movements now with that word when tracking. When unsure, if i say 'yes' she keeps going. Similarly, both dogs also know the word "no". They will both give up searching on tracks, and change direction if told "no" when heading in wrong direction.

    Im sure there are dogs, that need the objective marker method, where no vocal intonation can be misconstrued by the dog. And perhaps for high level bomb detection, scent detection, sniffer dogs etc, where accuracy is paramount, perhaps you need to be stricter. But for me and my pets, "yes" seems to work fine.
    I have trained with both and these days I use voice rather than a clicker. My dogs respond to both but I prefer training without the clicker. Although I have found the clicker very useful in certain situations - when I was working with a fear aggressive dog, the objectiveness seemed to have better results. Many precision working dogs are trained without the use of clickers. We have had drug detection dogs come to our work for training. Not a clicker or food in sight - just a rolled up towel thrown and a voice approval as a reward. Same with a lot of top obedience dogs I know.

    Timing and splitting the behaviors down, setting the dog up for success and other such concepts are the key regardless of what marker you use.

    I certainly dont use a clicker or toys or treats when training my dogs on livestock.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Adelaide
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    "ok" is a bad release word - because it's used in conversation so much.

    So you're talking to your trainer about what to do in the drill, and your dog is parked in a drop next to you, and the trainer finishes describing what to do and you say "ok" for "I understand" and your dog releases to do what they want. And then both trainer and student are distracted and it all goes to hell.

    Two trainers I've worked with say that they spend less time with students who use "ok" as their release word. I use "go" as my release word, as in "ready set GO!" because that's the most intuitive to me. And I use "play" or "go play" as release for dog to do what she wants. One of these trainers that says "ok" is no good - uses "break" - which is too bizarre for me to use reliably, and the other despite knowing it's not the best - is still using "ok".

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Hi Hyacinth.
    Just to update you. I have ditched my book on clicker. And returned to training in drive. My dog is no longer bored by training.
    At 6 months (rottie bordeaux cross) and 3 yrs (working GSD), the dogs dont judge the "OK" release as a bad word. To them it means, im free.
    I use "yes" to mean keep doing what you are doing. "NO" to mean not that way. When tracking and Bernie has lost the scent, he will look to me to seek

    I dont have a trainer. I have one i call upon when issues arise, i have no issues that warrant a animal behaviourist fee, but wont hesitate to bring one in, and have a great animal behaviouist/vet dual qualified. Also have trained with Steve from k9 with Bernie as a pup.

    Whilst i dont have a trainer to distract me, when i meet others people and dogs (this is in the bush) i have my dogs come drop at my side. I do use the word ok in conversation, neither dog respond to this. When i say "OK" in the special way, they react.

    And those 2 trainers you work with, who pay less attention to full fee paying students who use the word "OK", well take a look at what you have stated there. To make such a condescending judgement of a student lacking worth in attention. That's grandiose narcissim. Neither Steve, nor my animal behaviourist see any issue in my release word prompt. As the release is training is over/task is over be free, you would have to have deaf/blind/stupid dog who doesnt get they can run/jump and be free. Dogs are not married to any language, it is the audible sound they are responding too, not the verb.

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