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Thread: Is anyone familiar with Neil Sattin - natural Dog training?

  1. #11

    Default About Natural Dog Training

    I appreciate the discussion about NDT and would like to make some clarifications and distinctions. My operating principle is that what motivates dogs and animals, isn't necessarily positive outcomes but rather the feeling of encountering and overcoming resistance. This is the basis of social and cooperative teamwork because members of a group have to align and synchronize with each other in order to satisfy an appetite that can't be sated by individual action alone. And so even if something that would normally be considered "bad" happens, and yet the dog overcomes resistance, then the so-called negative becomes integrated into a positive perception of the experience. The dog feels good. Therefore if an owner/handler is the most intense form of resistance that a dog can align, sync and work with towards a common goal, then they become the most positive element of that dog's universe. Hence the pushing exercise. The owner offers resistance that the dog can overcome and this inspires the dog to want to align and sync up even when there are other things that are normally disturbing/exciting/distracting to the dog. At any rate, the concept of overcoming resistance leads to many subtle but I believe important distinctions between the existing theories of a dominance hierarchy and learning by reinforcement.

  2. #12
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    No one here was questioning the theory as such, Kevin. I don't feel qualified to do so. The discussion was about there being little evidence that the methods will work. I'm not saying that they won't, but I am not willing to pay money to learn about an unproven technique, that's all.
    Last edited by Beloz; 02-02-2012 at 07:33 AM.

  3. #13
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    We had a major problem with our dog jumping up and mouthing/biting when he was younger.
    With patience we got through/past this and he is now a very good and well behaved boy at 9 1/2 months.

    We have never trained a dog with food - an ear ruffle/hug & good boy! has always been reward enough.

    I was rapt at Bernies post about his Dogue puppy - the PLAY/ball is the reward the pup does not want food.
    Snoop is like this also - when we are outside together that is playtime.
    Food and treats are served IN the house after playtime/walkies etc.

    It works for us with this dog - he is a gun dog, unlike the ACDs we have had in the past.

  4. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    No one here was questioning the theory as such, Kevin. I don't feel qualified to do so. The discussion was about there being little evidence that the methods will work. I'm not saying that they won't, but I am not willing to pay money to learn about an unproven technique, that's all.
    Well if you ever feel something is missing from the current discussion on dogs, I hope you check out NDT. I appreciate skeptical inquiry.

  5. #15

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    I would also like to comment on the notion of proof. The pushing-for-food technique is completely benign so all that's required is to practice it and see what happens. It's been my experience that dogs that are jumpy/mouthy in a problematic way, stop of their once their craving for physical/tactile contact is satisfied.

  6. #16
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    Our point was that $80 to "see what happens" doesn't fit within everyone's budget.

  7. #17

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    It doesn't cost $80 to practice pushing, the information and some video is on/line for free.

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