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Thread: This Guy is a Dead Set Toss Bag!!

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by newfsie View Post
    Just asking and not looking for an argument...Do those trainers NEVER do a quick check on the flat collar or martingale, never use a "enough" or "ugh". Because these are all P+.

    I am also a Behavioural Trainer and I really enjoy working most of the dogs with R+/P-. But I will just never say never and having seen some people do some really good training with problem dogs. As you may have seen in previous posts, i advocate the BAT system a lot and it is R+/P-.......But I also will always remember my Annabelle. The dog who it was suggested by several behaviourists one vet and two from Delta, that we should PTS her. That was not going to happen, so yes she did have some P+. We took a different path with another behaviourist trainer. Like I said, since her I will never say never again.

    And the staffy was on the way to the pound....And they wanted results quick.
    We use reward removal closest we get to a punishment. Ie: dog is pulling towards a person on lead turn and walk the other direction, time out in crates etc.

    But absolutely no corrections.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDG View Post
    As long as the training works for you and the dog does it really matter what training is used provided it is used correctly?
    I must disagree with this statement.. beating your child may stop them talking back but it isnt right..

    I know someone that beats his dog, I mean closed fisted, when he has done something wrong. He doesn't do it again I'm telling you what. We always butt heads because I think his a w@nka and he thinks it works so whats the problem.

    I know this is not the same situation but I don't think its that far from it.
    Rubylisious


  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog_Lover View Post
    I must disagree with this statement.. beating your child may stop them talking back but it isnt right..

    I know someone that beats his dog, I mean closed fisted, when he has done something wrong. He doesn't do it again I'm telling you what. We always butt heads because I think his a w@nka and he thinks it works so whats the problem.

    I know this is not the same situation but I don't think its that far from it.
    Agreed

  4. #54
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    how did we go from training dogs to beating children? Beating someone or something is not training its abuse, there is a massive difference. Before you say there is a thin line...well yes there is, hence to using the training correctly part of the statement.

    And yes i agree the bloke is a tool for beating his dog.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keira & Phoenix View Post
    We use reward removal closest we get to a punishment. Ie: dog is pulling towards a person on lead turn and walk the other direction, time out in crates etc.

    But absolutely no corrections.
    I know I am being picky here, but change of direction is a correction if you do get tension on the lead....you see it is very difficult not to correct, ever.

    But if you have a well trained dog you can positively make the dog change direction, with a word or such as in the BAT system, which is true to the R+/P-. And I am sure you know when I say P- I mean removal or not giving of reward

    But that said....I will not tolerate any mistreatment, yelling, beating constant pulling, tight leads in my classes. As my classes are 99% R+/P-. but in my world I do come across those who need some guidance. I would love to bring this topic back in five years time and see where you have been. Right now we will agree to mostly agree, but slightly disagree.

    I am not even sure why I am arguing the case her as I am really a R+/P- trainer. I suppose I hate the condemnation of anything if it is not fully dissected and pulled apart and tried in the correct manner.

    Like I said I use it for some specific cases.....Not in class and one to one training for behaviour issues.
    Pets are forever

  6. #56

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    How can you guys see nothing wrong with near giving a dog whiplash pulling its head to the ground *shakes head*
    There is absolutely no need to train a dog like that... none, I don't care what methods you use on your own dogs if I saw anyone here doing that I would be calling the RSPCA.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crested_Love View Post
    How can you guys see nothing wrong with near giving a dog whiplash pulling its head to the ground *shakes head*
    There is absolutely no need to train a dog like that... none, I don't care what methods you use on your own dogs if I saw anyone here doing that I would be calling the RSPCA.
    Totally agree........i was only reacting to the statement regarding check chains and compulsion training. And i said in my posts the guy was using the equipment incorrectly. Would never consider him as a trainer. But you cannot blame the equipment. it is the person at the end......
    Pets are forever

  8. #58
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    Ok, I finally watched. And I didn't think it was that bad. There was only one moment where I thought the dog looked a bit distressed. But the rest of the time it seemed happy to just go along with it. Also, if this method works as fast as he claims it does, it means the corrections won't happen too often.

    It's not something I would want to try, but not so much because I think it's just plain wrong, but more because I think I might make mistakes. As I said before, reward based training is a much safer option for the inexperienced. So agree that it's not a good thing that this comes up in Google results when you search on how to train the down command.

    I think it's fantastic that you can train most dogs to an extaordinary level of obedience and skill by using positive reinforcement only. That was a fairly recent discovery for me and I'm pretty enthusiastic about it too. But I think I'm open to other people using different methods, as long as their dogs remain happy and well balanced.

    Personally I think the worst thing you can do to a dog is to totally confuse it by being inconsistent and giving mixed signals to the dog. Definitely worse than what this trainer does.

    As for him using the chain incorrectly, I would have no clue at how to use it correctly. Another good reason why videos like these should not be available to people like me!
    Last edited by Beloz; 10-05-2011 at 07:05 PM.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by newfsie View Post
    Totally agree........i was only reacting to the statement regarding check chains and compulsion training. And i said in my posts the guy was using the equipment incorrectly. Would never consider him as a trainer. But you cannot blame the equipment. it is the person at the end......
    Completely agree, I use check chains on mine, but when I pull it's barely enough to even make their head twitch. When used correctly you barely need to do anything, the noise of the chain sliding is uaully enough for mine.

  10. #60
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    Ha ha ! I read the thread title and thought it was a thread about clubsprint !


    Quote Originally Posted by reyzor View Post
    Education is important, but big biceps are more importanter ...
    DONT SIC YOUR DOGMA ON ME !

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