Page 10 of 18 FirstFirst ... 89101112 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 179

Thread: This Guy is a Dead Set Toss Bag!!

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,210

    Default

    I have been trying hard but Ruby still hasn't got the concept. Dont get me wrong she still is a genius, it must be me haha

    Edit to add

    I dont believe in any situation fear is respect, its fear. You haven't worked for the respect!
    Rubylisious


  2. #92

    Default

    bulldogs are notoriously stubborn. Incredibly entertaining and gorgeous nevertheless.

  3. #93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog_Lover View Post

    I dont believe in any situation fear is respect, its fear. You haven't worked for the respect!
    Do you honestly believe the dog in that video was fearful?
    If she was fearful she wouldn't have tried out her boundaries. In the end she just figured that he wasn't going to give up, so she backed down.
    Snapping the lead is not painful. A mother dog teaches her pups by pushing them down by the neck with her mouth. They are dogs not children.

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    4,292

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by puggerup View Post
    I would prefer to have a dog who follows commands out of respect and obedience rather than for a treat.
    Oh we'll get to that stage. Once I've sneakily hard wired her brain into believing that doing whatever I say is The Best Thing Ever! I honestly don't intend to walk around with the friggin treat bag forever. Once she knows exactly what to do, I phase out the treats and she will do it for zilch.

    All dogs are opportunists. They don't just think "My owner is awesome so I will do what she asks me to". They ask themselves "What's in it for me". For some, a simple pat on the head might be enough. But for dogs with a higher drive, it is often not. They'll do what you ask them to until the time that there is something they want more than that pat, which is when suddenly they will completely ignore you when you tell them to come for example. Giving treats (or playing a game of tug of fetch or whatever) is a pretty good way to make new pathways in their brain that result in them associating your commands with good things. Once those pathways are there to stay, you don't need the treats anymore.

    I have encouraged my dog to really want those treats. She is a total treat tart. You would think that she never gets fed sometimes. If I wouldn't just use the treats as rewards, she wouldn't even want them that much.

    They are also an excellent way to fine tune their responses. If my dog comes running immediately when I call, she'll get a treat, sometimes even 2 or 3 if there were high level distractions involved. If she takes her time or if I have to call her more than once, she gets a mere 'good girl'. It would be hard to give her messages like that with merely praise.

    Sorry, that was a long rant! I didn't really believe in treat-based training before I got this dog. But now I wish I had done it from the start with my old dog because I am convinced that it would have sped up her training considerably. And my old dog was very obedient! But it took me literally years to achieve that. I am confident it won't take me as long with this dog and my treat method.

  5. #95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brittany View Post
    Have not read many replies.

    I believe in all positive training, and that is how my dog has been and is being trained.

    I would not allow somebody to train my dog like that guy has. I would flip my shit if somebody jerked on Lacey's neck like that.

    I believe some older school methods can be legit ways of training, if carried out by professionals and in moderation. For example, police dog type situations. I don't believe in people trying it out at home because they saw it on Youtube.

    I however would not touch any old school methods with a... something really long and big.

    That dog was not going into a drop at the end of the video anyway, that dog was fooling around and lying on her back.

    I believe with clicker training etc you can get more accurate results.

    Also that guy has a stupid face.
    You do realise that there is more to training than "old school methods" and clicker training though right?

    The video was a bad example of training full stop regardless of the methods used.


    Quote Originally Posted by puggerup View Post
    I would prefer to have a dog who follows commands out of respect and obedience rather than for a treat.
    I like my dogs to work for life rewards in the house etc however, there's a reason top level competitors and trainers with highly reliable and well trained dogs use primary reinforcers like food and toys.

    Personally first and foremost I want my dogs to work with a great attitude, you only get this with reward based training methods, what reinforcer you use of course depends on the dog. If the best a trainer can get out of a dog is what we saw in that video clip, then I'm not interested in using their methods to train my (or others) dogs.

    I think you'd also struggle to train complex exercises and proof them to a high degree relying on "respect and obedience".
    Last edited by Bec; 10-08-2011 at 04:10 PM.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,596

    Default

    When you punish a dog - you risk fallout ie undesirable consequences that are hard to overcome.

    This is what Eric Letendre "Amazing dog training man" says about it.
    Dear Florence,

    Yesterday I spoke a little about choke chains and
    I wanted to add a little to it today.

    You see, I got started as a group obedience instructor,
    teaching classes with as many as 35 dogs in the room.

    The place that I used to work at issued a choke chain
    to every single dog in the class. Size or breed did
    not matter.

    The sad part to all of this was that I would watch the
    dogs walk in as happy, fun loving, excitable dogs and
    then see aggressive and fearful dogs walk out.

    At the time, I did not realize that the training with
    choke chains was causing the problems.

    You see, the dogs were corrected for everything they
    did. Pull on leash - correction. Dog does not sit -
    correction. Dog breaks the stay command - correction.

    The dogs also developed dog aggression because of
    cross associations. If your dog is looking at another
    dog and receives a correction, he may associate the
    correction with the other dog.

    Enough corrections associated enough times with other
    dogs will lead to a dog aggressive dog. The very behavior
    many people are trying to overcome in a class is enhanced
    and made much worse BECAUSE of the training.

    Does this mean that I am anti-group obedience training?

    Not at all - BUT - I am anti choke or prong collar in a
    group session for the very reason I explained above.

    In a group obedience class, always make sure your dog is
    on a gentle leader or buckle collar and train using a
    lot of rewards.

    All the best,

    Eric

  7. #97

    Default

    it always perplexes me when people think tools like head collars aren't aversive/corrective.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,596

    Default

    I guess it's how adversive something is.

    Ie preventing a dog from having its own fun is adversive to some extent.

    A front attach harness because it spreads the resistance/pressure is less adversive than
    A flat collar is proably less adversive than
    A head collar used gently and correctly (no yanking or allowing a dog enough lead to lunge) is less adversive than
    a choke chain collar used correctly and not set on ratchet - strangle.
    is less adversive than a pinch collar which is probably about the same as a correctly used
    e-collar with a low zap rating ie tolerable by humans but not pleasant.
    is less adversive than
    belting the dog with a stick
    is less adversive than
    belting the dog with your hand.

    So ideally the adversive you want to use most often is "no treat".
    then maybe saying "oops" etc.

    but ideally you want to reward, say "yes" or click and give a treat.

  9. #99

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    I guess it's how adversive something is.

    Ie preventing a dog from having its own fun is adversive to some extent.

    A front attach harness because it spreads the resistance/pressure is less adversive than
    A flat collar is proably less adversive than
    A head collar used gently and correctly (no yanking or allowing a dog enough lead to lunge) is less adversive than
    a choke chain collar used correctly and not set on ratchet - strangle.
    is less adversive than a pinch collar which is probably about the same as a correctly used
    e-collar with a low zap rating ie tolerable by humans but not pleasant.
    is less adversive than
    belting the dog with a stick
    is less adversive than
    belting the dog with your hand.

    So ideally the adversive you want to use most often is "no treat".
    then maybe saying "oops" etc.

    but ideally you want to reward, say "yes" or click and give a treat.
    IMO what we think is more or less aversive is not the point.

    The dog is the one who decides what it finds most aversive and this would differ for every dog.

    I've met quite a number of dogs who found head collars highly aversive, to the point where they completely shut down on them. The same dogs found prong collars far less aversive and worked with an up and happy attitude once transferred from the head collar to the prong. There's no blanket list of rules on what tool or method is more aversive. It changes from dog to dog.

    My experience would suggest that the vast majority of dogs find e-collars one of the least aversive tools out there, especially compared to prongs, head collars, check chains etc though again, this depends on the dog.
    Last edited by Bec; 10-08-2011 at 04:28 PM.

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    QLD, Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    299

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by puggerup View Post
    I would prefer to have a dog who follows commands out of respect and obedience rather than for a treat.
    mine are off the treats now, they just do it for verbal praise! seems they actually enjoy that more than a treat

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •