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Thread: Lose/lose Situation. Please Help!

  1. #1
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    Default Lose/lose Situation. Please Help!

    I have just gotten a 1.5 yr old Kelpie. She is beautifully trained. Great with 3yr old son, my cat and my 2 horses.
    However she is constantly using my son's room as a toilet when I let her in side. If she can't go in his room she picks another room at random. It doesn't matter if I WATCH her go outside as soon as she is inside straight to where she knows she shouldn't go.
    So I though alright I will make her an outdoor dog only... But then she barks at the slightest thing, the neighbours, the birds, people walking past on the other side of the road.
    She is perfect if I am by her side but I can't be with her every minute of the day. And the only solution at this stage is lock her in the laundry when I go out or can't have eyes on her at all times. And it is not fair on her or the house.

    I try to play with her as much as possible(on average 3 to 4 hours a day) and walk her everyday.
    She is booked in at the Vet fo Monday but any suggestions until then at least?

  2. #2
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    Is she desexed?
    Have you actually attempted to toilet train her?
    Education not Legislation

  3. #3

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    If the vet booking is for desexing thats a good start.
    It dose sound a little like marking(yes bitches do it too) if she has just done a wee outside & comes in & dose it straight away & has a prefernce for 1 area only.
    When she dose have an accident what do you do?
    Have you done any general obedaince training with her yourself?
    Dogs make everyday life enjoyable...........

  4. #4
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    No she is not De-sexed.. Yet. But she is toilet trained. for the first few day she would make definate 'i need the toilet signs' she even woke us the the first morning to be let out side, and she still does them when I am within visual range but if i leave the room or go for a shower or put my full attention on my 3yr old son, she suddenly forgets it all.
    I Praise her when she does go outside, when she goes inside she puts her tail between her legs and become extremely defensive/submissive, before i have even seen what she has done so she knows it is wrong.
    She is gorgoues on all other fronts. I suspect it attention related, but I am a stay at home mum so she she gets plenty of attention and positive reinforcement when she does something good. She does respect me as 'pack leader' If i say anything she responds almost instantly.
    I have grown up with heelers/Kelpies/Dingos, so i am aware of her energy and mental stimulation needs but this has got me stumped.
    We give her marrow bones to chew on outside, kongs rope and chew toys. And for there rare times she has been good by her self I saw her playing fetch by herself in a huge pack yard.

    Sorry for the long post I am trying to explain the situation fully to offer as much info as possible to hopefully get the perfect answer.
    ***Edit***
    Yes the first few days I went over all her commands, tested her around food. The works and I try once a day to have a 10min 'refresher time' in the back yard to make sure no bad habits emerge.
    As for what I do. If I catch her while she is doing it or just after I say "No, Bad dog" in a growlly voice and put her in the laundry for 10-20 mins. If I don't catch her straight away then I just clean up as I am aware of the bad habits that develope from delayed punishment with dogs.
    Normally yes she has a preference but if she can't get there she'll go to the next availible carpet area out of my sight
    Last edited by Drag0ncharm; 01-14-2011 at 11:23 AM.

  5. #5
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    CD, thats what I was getting at
    I think she's marking and trying to claim your sons room as her own.
    Nuetering is the first step. Make sure you use barking soda and vinegar to clean up the area, or she will continue to smell her scent and keep marking.
    Education not Legislation

  6. #6
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    She just did it again as soon as she was released from the laundry she walked straight past my Fiancee, down the hall and promptly did it again on the bathroom mat! I am at wits end here
    Edit
    all the bedroom doors were closed hence she chose the bathroom

  7. #7

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    That sort of thing can happen when a dog is toilet trained incorrectly.
    If the dog has been punished and yelled at for going in the house (especially if it's been caught in the act and punished) the dog associates guilt with it's bodily functions and go out of it's way to go somewhere out of view.
    Does she do it in front of people or does she do it when she's out of sight ?

    I'd be keeping her close and taking her out on a lead to do her business and saying go poo or go wee whenever she does one outside and then reward and /or make a big fuss, to try to associate doing so with something good and to hopefully be able to get her to go on cue later.

    If it is a fear driven behaviour it will take a lot perseverance and many accidents to overcome that behaviour.

    Cut down her options as to where she can go and keep an a close eye on her to hopefully see the signs that she's about to go and keep reinforcing the good behaviour.
    You say you're already doing most of what I've said so I feel for you, it won't be easy and it won't happen overnight, but any chastising or punishment will just reinforce that behaviour.

    It could well be territorial for the most part, but pooing inside blurs the issue somewhat. Maybe a combination of fear and territorial marking ?

    Just my two cents.

  8. #8
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    When i got my Annabelle as a rescue newf at 14 month she was not properly house trained and I did the umbilical system with her. She was in the house with me on lead. I had a belt around my waist and where I was she was. it took about six weeks to properly toilet train her. It can also stem from some hierarchy issues, when a dog does not toilet train properly, so you need to figure out as to what the reason is. is it because she does not know any better or is it because she wants to be higher than someone in her pack.
    Annabelle was a bit of both so some strict rules of what she was allowed and not allowed and some NILIF plus the constant on lead and lots of praise when it was done out side fixed it.......Good luck
    Pets are forever

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drag0ncharm View Post
    I Praise her when she does go outside, when she goes inside she puts her tail between her legs and become extremely defensive/submissive, before i have even seen what she has done so she knows it is wrong.
    Upon re-reading this statement, it seems to be describing classic fear based bodylanguage, I think this dog could have been toilet trained by the old chastisement method, which is proven to give the outcome you've described.

    She may need to be toilet trained all over again to try and overcome any fear issues.

  10. #10
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    as a rule yes she goes to where no one is watching but his last time (bathroom mat incident) she was not shy about it at all.
    When we take her outside we play her favourite games and when she does 'go' outside we make a huge fuss and the keep playing until she decides to to stop.
    I tried on leash but she just refuses to go to the toilet on the lead unless she is desperate on the way home from an extra long walk.
    I try to make outside a positive place and 'Her area', with toys and bones.
    As for trying to outrank my son, I am teaching him to 'assert himself' over her.
    I am teaching him to push the dog away when she tries to lick him and jump on his bed when he is in it and off the couch when she jumps up beside him(under supervision ofcourse) he quiet clearly tells her off for barking or sneeking a nose on the bench and Gypsy listens. So she is clearly not suceeding.

    I did note the fear response Bundybear.
    I only every growl at her when she goes inside and I NEVER raise a hand to her. I give her plenty of attention and positive re-inforcement for even little thing like sitting quietly while the cat hisses at her.
    Last edited by Drag0ncharm; 01-14-2011 at 12:26 PM.

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