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Thread: Cesar Vs. Victoria.

  1. #1
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    Default Cesar Vs. Victoria.

    Its the age old dog forum question.
    Cesar Millan or Victoria Stilwell.

    For those that arn't familliar with the two, Cesar has his own show, 'The Dog Whisperer', and takes a dominant 'pack leader' approach, while Victoria uses positive reinforcement training techniques in her show 'Its Me or the Dog'.

    I haven't seen a thread on this(well, recently) just wondering your opinions on the two.
    Education not Legislation

  2. #2
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    Victoria.

    Mainly because I haven't seen Cesar's show much, and I don't like the dominant approach, I believe positive reinforcement is the way to go.

    Also because I like British accents.

  3. #3
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    I like both.

    I think Victoria is more consistent with positive reinforcement and Cesar is more intuitive and flexible. I love Victoria's boots (she moves well)
    I love cooking but I love eating even more.

  4. #4
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    Yep, I love Victoria's boots too.

  5. #5
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    I'm not a huge fan of Cesar Millan but I do think he has some good ideas.

    I think Victorias training is more for the average owner than Cesars, I'd be happy to put what she does in practice but some of Cesars stuff scares the crap out of me. But then he does deal with more extream cases so I'd be interested to see how Victoria handles some of the dogs he does.

    If I had to choose between the two I do like Victoria more but I've watched more of her so 'm a little bias I guess

  6. #6
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    I think there are things you can learn from both of them. I love the positive reinforcement of Victoria, but sometimes dogs are so stressed/anxious/fearful in certain situations that they don't respond to treats/games/cuddles. I don't really like Cesar's approach that nearly every problem is related to status though (i.e he made one bulldog submit to a basketball and a hose).

    I mean you have to take every dog's individual personality into account when your working on behaviour modification. some things work on some dogs and others don't. they both have valid points but i never see cesar giving out treats ...
    "In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." - Edward Hoagland

  7. #7
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    Definitely prefer Victoria.........Her British accent, her long boots, how she moves & ummm....errr..........What was the thread topic again


    Seriously though, I use both styles depending on the situation.....

    Some examples:

    Dominant pack leader when an immediate response is needed, like a deeply growled NO or Grrr like when they spot a snake, or are over excited during vet check or jump up on a visitor.

    Positive reinforcement
    for the day to day things, like sit before eating = food, come when called or heeling = a good pat & verbal praise.

    Ok, I'll go away now
    Last edited by Chipps; 01-11-2011 at 10:54 AM.

  8. #8
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    Good post! ^ Sums it up for me exactly.

  9. #9
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    Haven't seen either, haven't read a training manual by anyone. I just train mine by positive reinforcement, a NO, OI, enough of that kind of thing at times that molds our dogs into fitting in the way we wish them to. It has worked that way for 30 years that I have had dogs of my own. Any problems with any of them we just adapted the situation for the benefit of all.

    These dogs if outside together will pack and run off. No recall will work as the herding instinct is far too strong.
    We built the huge pen.

    Accidents still happened so now the whole back area of the house is being fenced and dog proofed.

    Easy fix, some may say.
    Yes it is. Love it.

    They are safe, can't go after cattle unless we want them to.
    I am happy that they are secure and they will be able to be let out the back anytime, in any combination.
    Last edited by Di_dee1; 01-11-2011 at 11:10 AM.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  10. #10
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    I've watched Victoria's show a few times and while I think her methods do work on some dogs, they will have no effect on others.

    Cesar focuses on dog psychology and training the human re: their needs, which in my opinion is more important. He is putting out there that dogs need regular exercise, boundaries, and to be treated as an animal rather than a human. I've been watching his show for a few years; it's really helped with day to day life in our house. Our first dog was walked sporadically most of her life, whereas the 4 we have now get daily exercise for at least an hour as well as stimulation and training. As a result they are all mostly balanced, happy and healthy. None of them are destructive and apart from some barking, they have no bad habits (well, apart from stealing food...). I can easily walk all 4 of mine on slip leads. I've walked six at one time before with no issues. Before I was introduced to the Cesar method, walking was a nightmare and I avoided it! Now I look forward to it, and am a firm believer in regular exercise and 'pack walks.' They do help unite the dogs as a well-oiled machine rather than four individual animals.

    I do think some of Cesar's methods are slightly outdated, namely the alpha roll. There are very few situations where this could be used safely and how he manages to avoid getting bitten so much, I'll never know. The thing is that many of the dogs he works with literally have one more chance or euthanasia. His ideas on dominance are also slightly over the top, but general things like the dog being in front of you on walks, jumping on furniture before being invited up etc are an easy fix and not really the dog being dominant so much as the person not being the 'leader.'

    Cesar's work with pitbulls has undone some of the awful reputation they have. His own dog Daddy was a shining example of the breed and helped him rehabilitate hundreds of DA dogs over the years. Daddy's replacement, Junior, is almost exactly the same and that is due to the way Cesar raises his dogs to be dogs--balanced.

    The way he presents is also similar to Steve Irwin in that he is very charismatic and entertaining to watch. You can tell he is passionate about what he does, and he is easy to relate to. He makes sense which is important these days. On the other side of that, your average joe could watch the show and think they are able to use his methods. He has years of experience and he is intuitive about dogs in a way that many dogs trainers and behaviourists are not. I have seen people at the dog park doing his TSHHHH move and poking their bewildered dog...

    I take methods from all over with my dogs. Cesar's method of flooding, for example, would no way work with Carl. He is simply too fear aggressive and Cesar's hand would be taken off before he knew it. Jag responds well to firm discipline and needs regular work or he falls back to old habits. Carl is far too sensitive an individual; hurt him once verbally or physically and he will not forget. He only needs to be told something once, which saves a lot of time and effort.

    Positive reinforcement is key in Carl's rehab which is why I like some of Victoria's methods. I use clicker training with him, not that she advocates it, but it is how I found out about it initially.

    Also, what is up with her hair? She reminds me of a brunette Lady Gaga...


    like a rolling thunder chasing the wind...

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