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Thread: Sending Dog Away for Training

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz Tarja View Post
    are we talking aggression or dominance? because in my opinion a TRULY dominant dog very VERY rarely resorts to aggression to keep people in line. They have a natural confidence and air of superiority that can never be faked. When you are in the presence of a truly dominant dog you will know, and it can be quite .... overwhelming.

    Those dogs who turn to aggression to try and dominate 'usually' do it because they are unsure of themselves and so try to bluff their way into a top position.

    ... just throwing in my 2cents of what I've seen and learnt so far.
    Very true a stable dominant dog should not need to use aggression to get poeple & pack members to do his/her bidding.
    Bubba is a stable boss & will growl & swat(with a huge paw, lol) any other dog who gets out of lines. I truelly have noo idea what i would do without him in some rehab cases.
    But alot of dominant dogs are fearful & it can be a case of I'll get you before you get me. They feel they have no choise but be the boss because no one else is but they are not cut out for the job & become fearful, unsure & that can lead to fear aggression.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    That would be the Steve at K9pro way of analysing dogs

    Alpha dog - just a look is enough, but can back it up with just enough force if it needs to.

    Beta dog - wanna be alpha - and usually the one doing all the carrying on - until the alpha dog squishes it.

    Omega dog - ultra grovel dog - does not care who is boss - won't fight for it - what Frosty is. Until she tells you to give up the tennis ball and let her sleep on your bed and you give in, and doesn't always come when called (although has been much better lately). Ie while she is a super soft grovel dog, she will happily take charge if you let her.

    I'm not sure it's so distinct as all that and fear aggressive dogs are something else again. And there are a few dogs for various reasons (maybe trained by idiots), want to and try to attack everything.
    No it's not like that all the time at all, there are dogs that fit those assesments but many more that fall inbetween & can change change from 1 to another in a pack so that is just too simple a way to think about it.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Villain & Flirtt View Post
    Sorry, Choppa, but... huh? It might be me suffering Fridayitis (it is Fridy, right?)... or it might be the double negatives, but I'm honestly not quite sure what you mean to say.... (said also with politeness and an absence of antagonistic intent :-) )
    To be truthful I cannot say if its Friday or Monsay ( geeze these days just to know if I'm comin or going is sometimes a battle :laugh)

    I mean that all dogs are born with an inherant 'agression'.To say different ( again-with absolute no cause to offend or antagonise) would be deluding yourself -not just you-all of us. It is there.It is part of their chemical makeup.

    Now what may trigger that 'aggression ( another topic in itself really) is a large and varied range.

    Thus saying that NO dog is born with - or has no or will never show any form of - aggression is not correct.

    Really still as clear as mud ey
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    Site still in construction so will post link when it's finished.

  4. #54
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    I think it would be more like particular species of fish. Eg Blue Throat Wrasse or Blue Groper - have one big male in the group with a small harem of females, and if the big male is lost - the biggest female takes over, changes sex and grows bigger - ie there is always another fish / dog there to take the place of leader. Hence beta dogs and even omega dogs would not always hold the same place in the pack.

    Personally, my observations have been that each dog has its own set of jobs to do in its own head - and does them and occasionally you get a dog that is a "peacemaker" and will break up any fights or niggly conflicts (Turid Rugaas observed this too). I have noticed the peacemaker at work at one of my ovals - it's a big old GSD. And sometimes - Frosty does it. Stops a big dog from hurting a smaller one, or just breaks up scuffles by running through the middle as a kind of interuption.

  5. #55

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    The peacemaker here is Pearl, she can not stand to see other pack members fall out or be bullies.
    She is just a huge hearted dog really. Today I was feeding 7wk old pups & 1 got out the gate(still not sure how) & went & stole Pearls food which she gave up without a second thought. Not her pups but I think her true guardain spirit is finally coming through. she's always been gentle but had bad chase drive when I first got her home.
    My dogs will swap positions in different situations, Bubba is always boss but other than that it dose seem a bit interchangable.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaz Tarja View Post
    are we talking aggression or dominance? because in my opinion a TRULY dominant dog very VERY rarely resorts to aggression to keep people in line. They have a natural confidence and air of superiority that can never be faked. When you are in the presence of a truly dominant dog you will know, and it can be quite .... overwhelming.

    Those dogs who turn to aggression to try and dominate 'usually' do it because they are unsure of themselves and so try to bluff their way into a top position.

    ... just throwing in my 2cents of what I've seen and learnt so far.
    It's possible to be dominant and aggressive at the same time, but many people think that a dog is aggressive because it's dominant, and that is not true. Dominance aims at controlling another by means of ritualized behaviour, without harming or injuring another. The attack is motivated by aggressiveness alone.

    There is a difference in terms agressive behaviour and aggressiveness. Aggressive behaviour aims at resolving or assisting conflict, while aggressiveness is the ability to show the aggressive behaviour and to attack, a drive triggered by competition. Aggressiveness is the drive directed towards elimination of competition.
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  7. #57
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    occasionally you get a dog that is a "peacemaker" and will break up any fights or niggly conflicts (Turid Rugaas observed this too).

    We have observed this amongst our own dogs too.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minibulls mum View Post
    occasionally you get a dog that is a "peacemaker" and will break up any fights or niggly conflicts (Turid Rugaas observed this too).

    We have observed this amongst our own dogs too.
    Yup, I have one too.
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  9. #59

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    Over 10 years ago i bought a dog from them as at the time I was living in a fearful state for several reasons with young kids and desperate for a way to feel safe and have my family safe..at the time i was pretty clueless to alot of things to do with dog training.

    Did it work out..no
    Did they train me or give me any help at all with ongoing training or instructions for the dog..no
    Did they follow up...no
    Would i recommend them or their dogs for a family..no
    Did the dog perform as they advertised and guaranteed..no
    Do i think they were ethical or cared one iota about anything other than getting my money....no

    They knew I was clueless with young children and they sold me a dog supposedly good for a family trained in protection..basically they preyed on my fears for money...i know that now as they knew a little of my situation as i explained what i needed at the time and asked was it possible and they plugged it for all its worth extracting every last cent from me with promises that I wouldnt have to worry after bringing the dog home.

    I drove out to the property after talking to the wife several times during the week and arranging an appointment ..they took several dogs out of their kennels and had them perform out in the yard ..then they chatted amongst themselves as it was plain i was worried about the size of these dogs and my childrens safety and my ability to handle them and they decided a younger Rotty would be more suitable than what they were showing so he could bond with me more.This is after discussing would it be possible for me to have a dog chained up somewhere or in a pen when it wasnt needed as it wouldnt be safe otherwise so i could get a "more mature trained dog" specific for just guarding...

    I took him home and never heard from them again...the dog didnt deter anyone ever apart from the first time they saw him physically..i still had issues with security where people were able to jump my fence and terrorise us and the dog wouldnt deter them in fact he was scared of them and after a while I realised he didnt even bark or make a sound when they were around.

    The family that runs that place now is the same family that trained and sold me the dog i bought.
    Pepe our fluffy poochie

  10. #60
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    Hi Pooches

    That's a whole lot better than what I feared they'd sell you - ie a dog that would eat your children. But definitely not what you paid for - I do believe the office of consumer affairs or fair trade would be interested in that.

    Thanks for posting your story.

    Could I recommend an Australian Terrier. They do put the fear of god into intruders. They will bite and it does hurt and anyone that admits being bitten by one, gets laughed at.

    Quote Originally Posted by poooches View Post
    Over 10 years ago i bought a dog from them as at the time I was living in a fearful state for several reasons with young kids and desperate for a way to feel safe and have my family safe..at the time i was pretty clueless to alot of things to do with dog training.

    Did it work out..no
    Did they train me or give me any help at all with ongoing training or instructions for the dog..no
    Did they follow up...no
    Would i recommend them or their dogs for a family..no
    Did the dog perform as they advertised and guaranteed..no
    Do i think they were ethical or cared one iota about anything other than getting my money....no

    They knew I was clueless with young children and they sold me a dog supposedly good for a family trained in protection..basically they preyed on my fears for money...i know that now as they knew a little of my situation as i explained what i needed at the time and asked was it possible and they plugged it for all its worth extracting every last cent from me with promises that I wouldnt have to worry after bringing the dog home.

    I drove out to the property after talking to the wife several times during the week and arranging an appointment ..they took several dogs out of their kennels and had them perform out in the yard ..then they chatted amongst themselves as it was plain i was worried about the size of these dogs and my childrens safety and my ability to handle them and they decided a younger Rotty would be more suitable than what they were showing so he could bond with me more.This is after discussing would it be possible for me to have a dog chained up somewhere or in a pen when it wasnt needed as it wouldnt be safe otherwise so i could get a "more mature trained dog" specific for just guarding...

    I took him home and never heard from them again...the dog didnt deter anyone ever apart from the first time they saw him physically..i still had issues with security where people were able to jump my fence and terrorise us and the dog wouldnt deter them in fact he was scared of them and after a while I realised he didnt even bark or make a sound when they were around.

    The family that runs that place now is the same family that trained and sold me the dog i bought.

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