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Thread: Training Collar

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by k9force View Post
    K9: The word cruelty is pretty much an misunderstood term when it comes to dog training.
    I do agree...I was being slightly sarcastic due to the woes this thread caused ...saying the use of such collar is being cruel!!!

    However...watching this collar in action with a dog new to it...I was amazed that the dog knew after just a cpl of corrections with the vib (soft and high...high being nothing more than a reg massage tool for a human!)...to listen for the beep....once he heard the beep, he stopped and payed attention..therefor the vib wasn't needed.


    As I have said previously..all I need is a "tool" to get Candy's attention..I am fully capable of training her so long as I have her full attention...I certainly don't intend on useing it for anything other than that I want to be able to call her...and she'll stop and watch me for her next instruction.
    Last edited by ozeymum; 03-24-2009 at 01:30 PM.

  2. #32
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    Steve

    I believe the phrase I used was "cruelty aspects". This phrase was DIRECTLY related to the document "prevention of CRUELTY to animals act". I never made a value judgement about the e collar (not on this forum anyway lol), it was a contextual comment.

    Now I wrote this the other day but my computer was being foul so it wouldn't post:

    Good to hear you're doing well. I know of dogs to get those scores using purely positive too - doesn't mean either methods work for all people - doesn't mean all pp people are saints either. i've decided I dont go for extremism - Horses for courses. Anyone who dismisses anything without trying it is quite foolish.

    I am jolly sick of people saying "oh you use positive so you must be namby pamby" or "you use e collars thus you are evil". Fruitless accusations of which I have been on both sides for both arguments as you well know lol - live and learn!

    I think there is a balance to be struck. just because you say you dont use something or you dont like something doesnt necessarily mean you would deny others the use of it. Which is why I have not once said in this thread don't use it. I am a believer in legal stuff because I want to be on the right side of the law - need to be in my job (and SIGH - not suggesting anyone else doesn't need to be).

    I prefer these days to avoid using too many tools as I don't need em (toys are my preference because they lead into natural things like retrieve) but with my next dog - who knows. Might even get a husky for show and a shep for schh. That'll be fun!

    Have you had any vets flat out refuse e collars? What was their reasoning?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occy View Post
    Steve

    I believe the phrase I used was "cruelty aspects". This phrase was DIRECTLY related to the document "prevention of CRUELTY to animals act". I never made a value judgement about the e collar (not on this forum anyway lol), it was a contextual comment.
    K9: I wasn't speaking about any comments made by anyone specific, just the misuse of the word in general really.

    Good to hear you're doing well. I know of dogs to get those scores using purely positive too - doesn't mean either methods work for all people -
    K9: Ahh these scores were gained using my training in drive programs, typically it is totally motivational, no corrections... So I guess, I must be one of those you know lol.

    doesn't mean all pp people are saints either. i've decided I dont go for extremism - Horses for courses. Anyone who dismisses anything without trying it is quite foolish.
    K9: Yep that's always been my theory.

    I am jolly sick of people saying "oh you use positive so you must be namby pamby" or "you use e collars thus you are evil". Fruitless accusations of which I have been on both sides for both arguments as you well know lol - live and learn!
    K9: people dont often call me namby pamby & those that do always seem to have a keyboard in front of them?

    Positive motivation is always going to be the best way to train a dog, just not so good for stopping unwanted behaviours in many cases.

    I think there is a balance to be struck. just because you say you dont use something or you dont like something doesnt necessarily mean you would deny others the use of it.
    K9: hey true, I dont use Haltis or clickers, but will help someone who does use them.

    Which is why I have not once said in this thread don't use it. I am a believer in legal stuff because I want to be on the right side of the law - need to be in my job (and SIGH - not suggesting anyone else doesn't need to be).
    K9: I know what you mean, I am just more driven to help people with their dogs than comply with a law in some cases that makes no sense or was created by someone who doesn't know dogs like I do.

    Have you had any vets flat out refuse e collars? What was their reasoning?
    K9: I prefer to speak to the vets, spend some time explaining the methods & teach them a bit before I send people to them, so the answer is I haven't been turned away by one vet.

    Vets run a mile when people walk in with n0 experience & want their backing, I would too.

    In the old days I had so many people come at me & challenge me on my e collar training methods, even the worst hater of e collars that watched me train came around in moments.

    It really is very easy on the dog, it really does restore control pretty quick & I have built the program around retaining the dogs drive, not gaining submission.
    Last edited by k9force; 03-24-2009 at 04:43 PM.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  4. #34
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    Steve - I think the USE of e collars as changed and it is a matter of changing the perception. The perception I rightly had in the beginning (um 8-9 years ago?) was of a pain causing the device because that is how the literature worked and how the people around me worked.

    I do not necessarily advocate their use - I would prefer other avenues first. In fact I would rather train purely with motivation coming from me (no matter where you are you can always make something into a toy lol).

    As I said, it is about what you need at the time. My guys are now 8.5, 9 and 11. We live pretty happily and have for years - well Cappy and I at least - the others are newish. Sure I wish I had done some other stuff when cappy was young but it is all part of the learning process. He is pretty happy with his lot lol

    I wish people would start training from day 1. Get NILIF in there from the word go, go to training, deal with the probs as they emerge, not when they are established. But I guess wherever there are new owners there will be the same old problems

  5. #35
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    training drive program?

  6. #36
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    Of course training methods have changed. Along with everything else in this world.

    Your perception and views of ecollars ??? years ago is irrevevant today Occy.

    And thats the thing....you have dismissed and disregarded a method of training based on views held by you long ago. This was being considered by a member who asked for other views.

    By all means give your views but dont attack those who have a differing view and are open minded enough to consider other methods of training in this day and age.

    Each to their own. Every dog owner faces unique challenges and circumstances. It is crucial that they are supported and educated in training methods available by savy, experienced and highly regarded trainers.

    Steve and k9force are nothing short of inspirational for so many dog owners facing challenging/distressing times.

    Nic

    "There is enough love and concern for animals in every community to overcome the irresposibility of the few"
    Nathan Winograd.

  7. #37
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    I agree!

    wow!!..I think ppl just need to read the 1st page of this thread and see how 'some' (or in this case..one) can be sooo contradictive....unbelievable!

  8. #38
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    *sigh*

    NOT ONCE did I attack anyone for using an e collar in this thread. Not even a little bit. I've said from word go - to each his or her own. Instead of trying to inflame things why don't you add to the topic? What is the point of harranging me from behind a keyboard? How does it help or add to the conversation?

    I am talking about the wider population in regards to perceptions (mine changed years ago and I am comfortable where I am - so are my dogs - be buggered with everyone else), especially a group of trainers that Steve is well aware of (if his mind isn't going in his advanced years )

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozeymum View Post
    I agree!

    wow!!..I think ppl just need to read the 1st page of this thread and see how 'some' (or in this case..one) can be sooo contradictive....unbelievable!
    Money where your mouth is. Go on - quote where I have contradicted myself. Put up or shut up.

  10. #40
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    don't know about other's..but I have now used the magic 'ignore button' for the rude one

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