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Thread: Sneaky Jealous Kelpie

  1. #1

    Default Sneaky Jealous Kelpie

    Hi there everyone,

    How to put this simply.......and apologies for the mammoth post!

    I have recently inherited a large Red Kelpie. His name is Hopper and he has not been desexed. He lived on a station near by of where I live. His owners went away a lot and left him at home.....so he would always run into town (30km's). They didn't want him....so I took him on. I have had him 3 weeks. He had no manners or boundries....he didn't come back when you called him....he was quite loopy. Turns out he's fence jumper too (and that's not even my main problem!) A most lovely and eager nature. Seems very sweet. I can now let him off lead and he comes back straight away, he sits....getting the basics quite nicely. Still jumping out.

    My other dog.....Roket is the same sort of story. From a station near by....chained up for years.....so I took him on. He is the sweetest of little black Kelpies ever. He is my wing man. Perfectly behaved and devoted to me (poor love!). He is about 8 years old and I have had him 4 years.

    So the problem is......when I am not looking, Hopper (the new Kelpie) bashes Roket (the old kelpie) up. He doesn't do it when I am looking or when I am around. He even goes as far as to play with Roket when I am around. He is staying between me and Roket and is using the slightest of signals to scare Roket from coming near me. I only know there is something wrong cos Roket won't come near me sometimes and is very submissive. When I call him he comes and they will both come together for a pat. I have spied on them a few times and sure enough it seems Hopper is bullying Roket behind my back. When Hopper is around me butter wouldn't melt in his mouth! The signals must be so subtle....amazing. They are both laying on the floor by me now with no problem so sometimes he's not throwing off the horrible vibe....?

    Anyway....I understand that Hopper want's me all to himself....how do I tell him bad luck that's not the way it works. This is totally out of my realm of dog training! I feel so sorry for little submissive Roket who just wants to make sure he has me in his sights at all times!

    On that note I thank greatly anyone who has any ideas for me and takes the time to share them. If no one can help maybe some one has some tried and tested reading on the subject they could suggest.......?

    Thank you thank you! You guys have a great forum. Lots of good threads.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
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    12,581

    Default

    I don't have a lot of idea on this one. Some dogs especially some ACD like to be "only dogs" and will make that very clear. Dingos traditionally travel alone unless there is plenty of food around (eg Uluru). ACD and Kelpie have a bit of dingo in them.

    I think the best thing for your older kelpie is to separate them. Given that Hopper is the fence jumper, I'd be putting him in a crate while you are unable to supervise. Crate training is fairly straight forward for a dog that likes treats. Google is your friend.

    And that would solve your dog bashing and your dog escaping problems. And it might even give Hopper a bit of respect for Roket. But I wouldn't count on it. Some younger dogs just like to pick on older dogs until death do us part.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Rural Western Australia
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    2,635

    Default

    I had a similar problem when a possesive ACD I owned did a similar thing to a friendly and sweet Border Collie I also owned. My BC started to become more withdrawn and I knew what was happening.

    The only thing I could do was crate one or both when I was out as I didnt trust my ACD not to bully my BC who didnt stand a chance against her. I would watch for the subtle body language and stop it. I made it absolutely clear I wasnt tolerating it. She would still try if she thought she could get away with it but I made sure the opportunities were minimal and my BC started to become more confident.

    If I ever caught my ACD trying to bully her she would go straight on a leash or into a crate.

    With the pack of 6 I have today, same things apply. My youngest kelpie bitch sometimes gets bullied by the older bitches and I come down on them like a tonne of bricks, and they do it a lot less these days.

    Hopper is very smart as kelpies are, but you have to outsmart him and not allow him the opportunities and show him it wont be tolerated.

  4. #4

    Default

    Wow and thank you so much.

    If I go out and if I catch the body language I tie him up straight away. He always comes over happily and waits to be tied up like he loves it.

    I am amazed at how subtle the language can be. It's so hard It seems now Roket stays away from me and Hopper looks as though he has done nothing. It's hard to catch that!

    Any tips on fence jumping? He knows the fence is a boundary. When he is with me.....he won't cross it till I give the ok. But when I'm not looking he jumps over the gate.....and I'm sure he is extra quiet. If I catch him and call him back he happily jumps straight back over and runs up to me like a good boy and pleased because I called him!

    I am guessing ACD stands for Australian Cattle Dog......?

    I'll think twice before I rescue another Kelpie! Oh the devotion! Maybe I need some sheep or something!

    Thanks again.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Rural Western Australia
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    Default

    With the fence jumping, I doubt you will stop him. He is a farm dog used to jumping fences. My Koolie and kelpie go over any fence, so I have built them an enclosure where they are contained when I go out. Kelpies will take massive jumps. I have seen them clear a normal pool fence in one leap from a stand still.

    Yes kelpies, ACDS, Koolies - great devotion! If you can find some sheep to work him on that would be great. Or maybe agility - he sounds like a perfect budding agility dog!

  6. #6

    Default

    Surely you can teach an old dog new tricks though.......? Like not to jump the fence.

    I think both of them would make good agility dogs and it's something I have always wanted to do. Unfortunately I live in tiny little town though.....no agility training here.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Good luck with the fence training! From the sound of Hopper you would have your work cut out. He is already been able to roam far and wide and it is very difficult to stop when you are not there.

    Yeah I know what you mean about agility. I live on a farm so I do all the training by myself. I built my own gear and learn from DVDS and magazines like Clean Run.

    I take the occasional lesson when I visit the city and will also travel to compete in trials. The dogs enjoy it! You can make gear yourself or buy light portable agility stuff over the internet. I have a small area I have grassed to do agility, but if you have a park you can set up there. Maybe other people might be interested too!

  8. #8

    Default

    I had a 'mixed breed' previously that also cleared fences and scaled them when clearing them failed. The only fix we had for her was an electric fence. WORKED WONDERS. I think she hit it twice maybe three times and that was it, then she wouldn't go within a foot of the fence unless I walked her through.

    Placement is paramount, it must be in a position so that no matter how they try to 'get over' they will come in contact with it. This can be tricky to get right but is worth every bit of frustration in getting there.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Hobart
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    Peg is a fence jumper, but only out of her run, we thought about electrifying it but were concerned if she go hooked up then it would kill her, we also have steel fences in the run.

    We got some mesh door sized metal, like what you find in some security screens and laid it flat onto the top of the fence, it stops her getting purchase as she can no longer scramble her way up the fence (5ft fences)

    I'd also consider getting him desexed

  10. #10

    Default

    Fence jumping seems a hard one. I have only ever seen him jump the fence at the gate. I guess I can try making that higher and see if he goes for the fence.......can only try. Electric fence would be great. It may come to that depending on both of our determination to win! As he settles in he seems to be doing it less and less. Plus every time he so much as looks as though he is going near the front gate I make a growling noise at him....he soon changes his path and relaxes back into the yard. Desexing is first thing on the list next time in Port Augusta!

    I am also starting to wonder who is bullying who. I know sometimes the less aggressive dog is actually doing the bullying.......? Shifty creatures these damn dogs!

    I have another question.....Was wondering what people think of a product called 'dog silencer' or 'the dog silencer'.....? I think the same thing may be sold under different names. Press a button and it lets off a high pitch noise which we can't hear but the dogs can. Did I ask that question in the wrong place.....? I hope I haven't opened a can of worms.......

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