Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 119

Thread: An Alpha Dog????

  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    4,241

    Default

    I haven't watched much Caesar Millan but in MY opinion, I believe there is such thing as being alpha/top dog.
    Everyone has to remember dogs are not people. They are dogs, they are pack animals. Most dogs from the age of 4 weeks go through a process called subordnation(sp?). Its the time of a pups life where they determine where they stand in their pack. Beginning with their fellow litter mates. Have you ever seen a mother dog nip, growl or push her babies around? She is letting the puppies know whose in charge.
    The alpha dog in a pack get everything they want. And thats what you need to be as a leader.
    I'll probly get flamed, but I have no problem with the use of alpha rolling. I never used it with my dogs - I never needed too, but I have used an alpha bite with numerous pups in the vet.
    If you try to push your dog off the couch and he growls at you, do you really think that is a training issue? No, he is showing you whose boss.
    Dogs are not equal to humans, the thrive with a leader.
    Education not Legislation

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    SE Suburbs - Melbourne
    Posts
    487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fedra View Post
    There is NO SUCH THING as alpha dog, at least not among those who live with us and have been tame for centuries. Anyone who has ever bothered to scratch under the surface and to read a bit about the way dogs live, function etc. would know it. .

    I disagree, but each to their own...
    Dogs Aren't Our Whole Lives, But They Make Our Lives Whole


  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemyf7 View Post
    I haven't watched much Caesar Millan but in MY opinion, I believe there is such thing as being alpha/top dog.
    Everyone has to remember dogs are not people. They are dogs, they are pack animals. Most dogs from the age of 4 weeks go through a process called subordnation(sp?). Its the time of a pups life where they determine where they stand in their pack. Beginning with their fellow litter mates. Have you ever seen a mother dog nip, growl or push her babies around? She is letting the puppies know whose in charge.
    The alpha dog in a pack get everything they want. And thats what you need to be as a leader.
    I'll probly get flamed, but I have no problem with the use of alpha rolling. I never used it with my dogs - I never needed too, but I have used an alpha bite with numerous pups in the vet.
    If you try to push your dog off the couch and he growls at you, do you really think that is a training issue? No, he is showing you whose boss.
    Dogs are not equal to humans, the thrive with a leader.
    I agree with you. The simple fact that they are pack animals means there has to be a leader of sorts, there would be chaos otherwise.

    Some dogs will walk all over you if you dont show some control/leadership/dominance or whatever you want to call it. Its all the same thing. You may say, well with my dog iv never needed to show any "dominance", thats probably because your dog is naturally submissive and your demeanor is leadership material naturally.

    I believe this is a sound theory, along with many others. Someone on here said Millan is not a dog psychologist, true, there isnt any such thing really but I believe he comes close to being one. His techniques in my opinion work, he ends up with a balanced dog, when once they wernt. This leads to a happy dog which is what we all want at the end of the day.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    4,241

    Default

    Lady was adopted from a shelter, and was naturally submissive. I assume from her first home.
    Roly though, I could get to the core of him with a deep growl. He was never aggressive just pushy and bitey.
    Education not Legislation

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,032

    Default

    Living in a multi dog house with entire dogs has certainly made me believe there are leaders and there are followers within the dog pack. How that then applies to us is a little less definitive.

    I think our role as leader/owner is to be consistent, firm, fun and loving providers and the most simplest form of supplying this without having to go over the top is basic obedience training to CD level (whether you want to actually compete is up to you).

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    4,241

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mouseandchicken View Post
    Living in a multi dog house with entire dogs has certainly made me believe there are leaders and there are followers within the dog pack. How that then applies to us is a little less definitive.

    I think our role as leader/owner is to be consistent, firm, fun and loving providers and the most simplest form of supplying this without having to go over the top is basic obedience training to CD level (whether you want to actually compete is up to you).
    Absolutely, I agree.

    An example of pack leaders is when I was living at home. The leaders went me, dad, mum, Roly and then my sister. If my sister tried to push him off the couch, he would growl and this would scare her so she's just leave him there. Roly tried it with me once, I put my thumb and 'pointer' finger just behind his ears and applied firm pressure called an 'alpha bite'. I gave a deep growl and said 'no' and then pushed him off.
    If my sister had the confidence to do this, she could establish herself a better position in the 'pecking' order.
    Education not Legislation

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mouseandchicken View Post
    Living in a multi dog house with entire dogs has certainly made me believe there are leaders and there are followers within the dog pack. How that then applies to us is a little less definitive.

    I think our role as leader/owner is to be consistent, firm, fun and loving providers and the most simplest form of supplying this without having to go over the top is basic obedience training to CD level (whether you want to actually compete is up to you).
    Very true.

    The word dominance does seem to be overused or taken to mean complete smothering of the dog to the point where its ineffective. Leadership is a good term for the state of mind you need to be in to show that this is your house.

    It can be shown at simple times like dinner time. I feed them when I want to feed them and they only eat when I say its ok. This isnt very long but my dogs sit patiently waiting to be told its ok. Without knowing it you are showing leadership to the dog and they will start to follow you.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,032

    Default

    I'm not sure if I would of handled the situation the same way Myf, but it obviously worked so all is good.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is I believe that basic obedience training, using whatever method you are most proficient at can give the dog leadership so that instances don't occur in the first place.

    Two of my biggest sayings to my classes are "no freebies", and "lower the love meter". This is mainly for novice dog owners, so please don't go around thinking that I don't pat my dogs, and I'm equally sure that my students don't entirely stop giving out freebies, but if they can lower it by half then that's a start.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,581

    Default

    Ok there's a whole bunch of logic fallacies in here and a whole bunch of what used to be accepted fact - but now discredited - due the the complete lack of real scientific research and a whole lot of counter scientific research.

    For starters

    Pack animals do not automatically have a single leader. They may have no leader (look at schooling fish and bird flocks) or they may have several leaders - and follow the one that is best at the task at hand - ie it's democratic. Leadership is not always something that gets fought over either. Breeding rights - another matter.

    Most animals (including humans) operate out of a "whats in it for me" and will do whatever they want that they can get away with. What one dog/human will tolerate, another will not, but it doesn't make one leader and the other not.

    When it comes to food - Frosty is quite happy to be a follower and will wait her turn. When it comes to going for a swim at the beach or playing chasey - she will be the leader, and get even reluctant dogs into the game and the water. A lot of people see her grovelly greeting as "submissive" or "timid" but I know it's not - it's what works for her most often - she gets more doggy friends to play chasey and avoid fights using this method than any other.

    An older dog will quite frequently tell a boistrous puppy to rack off, but it's more "leave me alone" than "I am your leader" because the older dog doesn't care what the puppy does otherwise so long as it lets the older dog sleep or whatever.

    Dog growling on the couch is resource guarding and it is a training issue. The dog likes that spot for the same reasons we do, and is wholly in the "whats in it for me" and "what I can get away with" and "doing what works". It's up to you to decide if that's ok with you. For me it isn't. However Frosty frequently has the couch when I'm doing other things and that's ok with me too. She has never growled at me when I wanted it. She does growl and bark at me when she wants me to play with her.

    Oh and did I mention that dogs aren't pack animals in the same way that wolves might be. Depending on the availability of food - if there isn't much they usualy operate solo -eg dingos in the desert and only come together when there is lots and co-operate wholey on the whats in it for me basis.

    And a lot of the stuff about wolves insisting the leader always go first is not true either. Need to catch up with some real research.

    I wouldn't write off everything an "Alpha" disciple preaches. Some of it works - like setting boundaries and being consistent - just not usually for the reasons the disciple says. Conclusion may be ok, reasoning flawed. Some of it is ok and some of it is crap.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mouseandchicken View Post
    I'm not sure if I would of handled the situation the same way Myf, but it obviously worked so all is good.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is I believe that basic obedience training, using whatever method you are most proficient at can give the dog leadership so that instances don't occur in the first place.

    Two of my biggest sayings to my classes are "no freebies", and "lower the love meter". This is mainly for novice dog owners, so please don't go around thinking that I don't pat my dogs, and I'm equally sure that my students don't entirely stop giving out freebies, but if they can lower it by half then that's a start.
    Obedience training is the number one way of showing leadership, i totally agree. Unfortunanty we rescued our two and both at the time of adoption where coming up a year and a bit. Both seemed to have not been shown much obedience so it was back to square one, plus a few bad habits.

    This needed a bit more time and other techniques are being used to help, they are coming along very nicely now

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •