Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Overally Protective of Kids..

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    297

    Default Overally Protective of Kids..

    HELP!! i never thought this would be a problem, but chloe is just WAYYY to protective of My Daughter(6) and it's proving to be a real issue..

    We've had chloe for just on 3 months now and she's adapted so well to our family it's like she has always been here.. Her and Miss 6 have a very special bond as kids and dogs seem to, which i keep a close on eye and has not been a problem until recently...

    Thanks to Occy (much love!), chloe now walks using a sensi-ble leash, and it works brillant shes loose lead walking and we're both having a fantastic and fun time walking (except when i run trying to be fit and she shows me how unfit i really am )

    The problem is when Miss 6 comes with us she MUST walk along me and chloe otherwise i loose all control.. If Miss 6 runs/jogs chloe pulls and pulls and barks and goes mental until she is able to be with Miss 6.. The same thing happens if she is riding her bike/scooter.. And when i let chloe off leash to see what she would do, she actually started to bite the bike and also mouthed Miss 6's ankles (I'm guessing it's the shepherd in her, telling Miss 6 to get back into line)..

    The same thing happens on the trampoline, thanks to the enclosure around it chloe can't get in, but she'll jump up trying to get in and when she's told to get down runs underneath it barking frantically and again nipping at Miss 6's feet..

    I've been pretty firm with chloe giving her strict "no" and calling her to come, when we are walking, I keep her on an even shorter lead so she HAS to stand next to me (and it stops her jarring my shoulder) but its just completely unpleasant.. I tried treats but chloe is completely uninterested in food rewards and i've also tried taking a toy with us for a diversion but she just doesn't want to know, the ONLY thing she wants is to be by Miss 6's side..

    As for the tramp well i call her and hold her by the collar (which doesn't affect her), the food treats which again were useless and i tried throwing a toy for her whilst Miss 6 was on the tramp which worked for the first 10 mins but after that she just became obsessed with what i can only describe as "saving" miss 6..

    The main concerns are the mouthing and the little nips she's giving miss 6.. They aren't painful but they are annoying and on the odd occasion the contact been on the bone which must hurt...

    Obviously the other concern is my sanity when walking because i refuse to walk the dog and then my daughter (although both are as bad as each other on occasions )

    I'm guessing it's a bond thing and Chloe feels responsible for Miss 6, and whilst it's cute and everyone laughs about how i don't need to worry about Miss 6, i do! as she can't do anything Chloe doesn't want her to do without it being a real issue and kids must be allowed to be kids...

    SO HELP!!! PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Chloe's killing her with love lol

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Memphis TN USA
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jodz View Post

    Thanks to Occy (much love!), chloe now walks using a sensi-ble leash, and it works brillant shes loose lead walking and we're both having a fantastic and fun time walking (except when i run trying to be fit and she shows me how unfit i really am )

    The problem is when Miss 6 comes with us she MUST walk along me and chloe otherwise i loose all control.. If Miss 6 runs/jogs chloe pulls and pulls and barks and goes mental until she is able to be with Miss 6..
    How old is Chloe?

    dogand

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Aust.
    Posts
    148

    Default

    Hey Jodz,

    I feel for your situation, it's always a tough thing when dog behaviours affect the family - specially your little ones. I reckon there's a few simple steps which might help out here - and I think they might come down to pretty simple pooch training. It's just sometimes the simple things are a bit blurred when kids are involved because the worry factors are so much higher. So hope this helps (no doubt there will be a thousand other responders, but this is what I'm thinking just right now):

    These are kinda mixed in with questions as well .. as the whole picture is hard to see without 'seeing' it happen -

    1. You mention that things were great between Chloe and the family until recently - and you've had Chloe for 3 months? For the better part of 3 months was she good with socialising and walking with Miss? I only ask I guess to wonder if something happened that might have made Chloe more protective or slightly less comfortable with how the routine of the family works? Sometimes a 'new' pup in a house is given a slightly more 'free run' policy in the house and then when things settle, they are brought back to a more 'disciplined routine' ie. kids first - whereas in the first few weeks/months they were the boss! This can sometimes bring out some behaviours almost of confusion and where is my place, what am I doing?

    2. Is the trampoline about Miss or is it about the trampoline itself? If Miss was always able to play on the trampoline without Chloe reacting then that is one thing .. if it's a newly found issue then it could be the trampoline itself? I have known heaps of dogs who just cannot stand a trampoline and go berko over the first sign of a jump! So I guess this is one thing that could be narrowed down. If not, then we can go back to some training techniques.

    3. Miss is 6 - so whilst this is a young age it's an age where kids can definitely start to be responsible for dogs. So depending on Miss' nature there might be an opportunity to enforce her authority in the family (in terms of what Chloe sees). Like feeding and training .. really simple things - sits, stays, recalls. You could maybe have a talk to her and see what her comfort levels are (and yours of course!). As long as there is some 'affirmative' direction from her. (and yeah I know this is hard, but with some work it can happen). I say this as it's a big step in breaking down that order of authority in the house which might see Miss as lower than Chloe.

    4. The issue of walking goes back to point 1 a lil - had Chloe ever been able to walk with Miss? If so, then has anything ever happened since then and now? If not, then the issue might purely be a common situation of a pooch walking with a different 'gang' - from a dog's point of view they are accustomed to what they know and any change can sometimes bring about behavioural changes. If Chloe hasn't known any different then it could certainly bring about some of the reactions that you described (wanting to get next to Miss, get in front etc etc).

    Ok, this is getting a big long.

    Perhaps if we go through all these issues and the situation still remains then I would believe that going back to the basics of dog training could help (which you'd do anyways) - rewarding the good behaviour, ignoring the bad - specially the nips. And repetitive training .. Chloe has only been there 3 months .. this is a relatively short period of time when you consider their adjustment period.

    Hope this helps in some way Jodz .. feel free to sing out if I didn't make any sense (at this time of night it is very possible )

    Cheers,
    SH, Lola n' Zep

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,536

    Default

    Are you sure it is a protective behaivour and not just "I want to run ahead and play"? My dogs are bonded more to me then they are to my kids but when they run and play my dogs want to run and play. Watch pups when they play rough, they chase and bark and nip. I would be more wondering if was this type of scenario and breaking that habit. How to go about that would be to try and get your daughter to play calmly and confidently with your pup and let her know that Miss is not going to play if she is going to get boisterous. Get Miss to stop and turn her back when Chloe starts to bark and a firm No from her if she starts being silly and then turn her back, you will of course have to supervise and step in if Chloe ignores your daughter but try and let your daughter do most of the commands.

    Let us know how you get on and what works and doesn't.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Devonport, Tasmania
    Posts
    6,675

    Default

    Yeah, TBH Jodz this does not sound like a huge-bonding, protection display type of behaviour to me either. It sounds more like a young pup who wants to be in on the fun that the kid is having, if you get my drift.

    Doesn't want to walk with you, wants to run like the bike, play with the bike, eat the bike, sorry about the ankles in the way.
    What concerns me GREATLY is the nipping. This cannot continue, as you've said.
    I also don't feel that the pup is seeing your daughter as above her on the social heirachy, either. This behavior tells me that your daughter is actually lower on the chain than the dog - in the dogs eyes.

    Lots of problems here that all come down to the dog's social standing in your family - which must be at the bottom.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,032

    Default

    I would have to agree with the above two posts.

    A good read is Jan Fennell The Dog Listener and the chapter Amiechien Bonding.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    297

    Default

    Thanks for your replies... Sorry it's taken me a few days been a bit hetic... I agree with it probably being more of a "its fun" then a protectiveness now that i think of it.. I just thought perhaps it was the other because Chloe HAS to lay in front of Tay's room at night and be around her when home even at a distance thats all..

    First off chloe's 17months old, we've had her for 3.

    1. You mention that things were great between Chloe and the family until recently - and you've had Chloe for 3 months? For the better part of 3 months was she good with socialising and walking with Miss?
    For the first 3 months Tay (daughter) was in school or with her dad when i walked chloe (cooler days so 9 - 10 was fine) so when she did walk with us, she was buggered so didnt run/ride etc.. so walking was easy then with chloe as these 'extras' weren't in the picture.

    . Is the trampoline about Miss or is it about the trampoline itself? If Miss was always able to play on the trampoline without Chloe reacting then that is one thing .. if it's a newly found issue then it could be the trampoline itself?
    The tramp is new a xmas present this year, when Tay isn't on the tramp chloe will quite happily run around it, lay under it etc, but as soon as she gets on it the 'fun' starts.. we've not had a problem with anything else though.

    . Miss is 6 - so whilst this is a young age it's an age where kids can definitely start to be responsible for dogs. So depending on Miss' nature there might be an opportunity to enforce her authority in the family (in terms of what Chloe sees). Like feeding and training .. really simple things - sits, stays, recalls. You could maybe have a talk to her and see what her comfort levels are (and yours of course!). A
    This is where i have to be brutally honest, whilst i'd love to give the prefect parent resposne.

    Tay has NO idea (no matter how many times i explain it to her using a whole range of ways) that she MUST be the leader. She will get down and pretend to be a dog with chloe or let chloe be the leader in games etc..

    She'll then stand up (after being told and told again!) and demand chloe do something like sit (i've encouraged tay to help me train her when i am around but occasionally i'll run off to the kitchen and i'll hear her try and tell her to do it).

    So i THINK (as im far from a dog expert) chloe just doesn't see Tay in an authoritative figure, and is awfully confused when all of a sudden tay is demanding chloe listen to her..

    Are you sure it is a protective behaivour and not just "I want to run ahead and play"? My dogs are bonded more to me then they are to my kids but when they run and play my dogs want to run and play. Watch pups when they play rough, they chase and bark and nip. I would be more wondering if was this type of scenario and breaking that habit. How to go about that would be to try and get your daughter to play calmly and confidently with your pup and let her know that Miss is not going to play if she is going to get boisterous. Get Miss to stop and turn her back when Chloe starts to bark and a firm No from her if she starts being silly and then turn her back, you will of course have to supervise and step in if Chloe ignores your daughter but try and let your daughter do most of the commands.
    Well despite Tay doing the above things i just mentioned, when she is getting way to Over the top and so forth, this is what i try and tell tay to do. She drops all toys etc, she folds her arms turns her back and says "NO chloe" in a deep (angryish for a child to get the depth) voice.. I haven't stopped doing this, but am glad that i'm at least on the right track..


    Ill also look into that book too thanks mouse and chicken..

    However for the meantime and taking a step back and looking at the situation, i'm going to point to the fact of tays behavior when she decided to play with chloe (as i described above about being a pup with her etc GRRR) as the reason that Chloe has no respect (for lack of a better word) for her??

    So whilst this post started as help me with my dog, it's now changed to Help me with my child! haha

    How did you go about teaching your kids that they MUST remain 'above' the dog??

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sunshine Coast, Qld
    Posts
    909

    Default

    I TOTALLY know where you are coming from Jodz. I have a 5 year old son who is exactly the same. It doesn't seem to matter how many times I tell him, I still look away only to turn back and find him lying on the floor with Jenna practically on top of him. Very Very frustrating.
    The best things in life, aren't things

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    297

    Default

    Hun if you're happy writing them im MORE then happy to read them!! lol

    I tried again this arvo on my own (HA! what a mistake) with tay and chloe, ended horribly and tay got really pee'd off at the fact our walk was cut short due to my arm being ripped off by Chloe wanting to chase tay and her scooter down the road...

    But i used it as a way to 'show' tay why it was so important that she remained a leader and nothing lower.. I don't know if i got through, brick walls in this house tend to listen to me more :P But i also know that one day I'll say something and BANG it'll be like "well why didnt you just say so mum"...

    I've asked Den (OH) to come with me tomorrow and we're going to try again.. We already do training classes but they close for close to 12 weeks over the course of summer because it's just too hot and apart from some largish tree's the oval they do it at just isn't shaded enough for the amount of dogs they have..

    Thankfully before we "broke up" for the year, I asked a few pointers and I thought perhaps I could run them past you guys to see what you thought. They are all about positive training which i agree with 99% of the time (just like kids)...
    They suggested (this was to do with loose lead walking not specifically chasing after Tay)

    * Walking along and the first time Chloe pulls, tapping the lead and saying no, then stopping until she relaxes the pull..

    * If it happens straight away then turning in the opposite direction and continue walking until she inevitably pulls again OR if she doesn't turn back to the original direction and continuing on the walk we had first planned...

    Does that sound like reasonable way to expect results? i know it's not going to happen first, second, third go. But in conjunction with Tay NOT being a dog (not in the rude sense, but i mean physically stop pretending to be one) am I on the right path (HAHA~) to getting it right??

    Obviously i can't do this on my own whilst Tay believes I have eyes in the back of my head truth be known i dont and cannot watch her whilst im heading in the opposite direction...

    I thought if we start small with Den walking with Tay and myself with Chloe (seeing as I am the one who walks her every day, or should it be den the Alpha to start it and once chloe has it to pass the reigns to me?) We will start with intervals of 10 mins, then 20 then 30 until we can get up to our normal 1 - 1/2 hr walks and hopefully eventually Den wont need to come at all which would be nice (i like "my" time when i take chloe and tay to the lake)

    I appreciate you taking the time to ask questions and actually caring too!! I know its very hard to get a grasp on the whole situation with just one or two posts and whilst i try to fill in everything you miss a lot of stuff which I just "assume" everyone knows.. *eye roll*

    So again thank yoU!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,536

    Default

    All those pointers that you have been given are great EXCEPT for the fact they are going to make walking time with TAY very frustrating. Are you able to put two leads on Chloe? If you are give a longer one to Tay so she "thinks" that she is also walking Chloe and you have the shorter control lead. This worked with my youngest who is three, he as well as the dog thought that he was walking him even though I was the one in control at all times.
    To make Tay more authoritive is a bit harder but it can be done.
    What would you do with Tay if she was being "naughty"? does she have a "naughty corner"? If you agree with this principle - you need to have one for Chloe. My laundry works best for this because it faces the backyard and my dogs can see that my kids are still having fun but they are not. Uncontrollable dog means laundry and all my kids and dogs know that.
    You need to tell Tay that she needs to stand as tall as she can and say as gruff as she can "no". But do it as role play first get her doing it to a stuffed toy dog, get her to train it and teach it things. This makes the initial learning fun and not intimidating.
    Do not get Tay to give Chloe treats as she will be looking for them all the time, only to tell her "no" and to be the authoritive person.
    The trampoline is an unusual toy for a dog it makes no sense to them, I would feed her her dinner next to it and do the next couple of training sessions next to it, so that she thinks of it as a good thing. (If this is possible of course).

    Hope some of these things work for you!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •