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Thread: Prong Collars, Why?

  1. #51
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    Beating a dead horse here.

    Im out.
    Education not Legislation

  2. #52
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    Sorry Myf, you're a little off there

    **********

    Study of Prong Collars in Germany

    100 dogs were in the study. 50 used choke and 50 used prong.
    The dogs were studied for their entire lives. As dogs died, autopsies were performed.
    Of the 50 which had chokes, 48 had injuries to the neck, trachea, or back. 2 of those were determined to be genetic. The other 46 were caused by trauma.
    Of the 50 which had prongs, 2 had injuries in the neck area, 1 was determined to be genetic. 1 was caused by trauma.

    (Information about study taken from an Anne Marie Silverton Seminar)

  3. #53
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    Ok then, well I've heard wrong then.
    I'll give you that.
    Education not Legislation

  4. #54
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    K9 - I'm in Melbourne, I'm not having as much trouble with my ddb, although he is a bit of a steam train at times. It's more my girl, ddb x boxer.

  5. #55
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    Personal Message
    Education not Legislation

  6. #56
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    Liza, please re-read my posts on this thread and previous posts on this forum too for that matter. I have no further comment to make.
    k9, are you calling me a liar? The lady in question did not sit on the dog because it was perfectly ok. The dog was vicious with her and bit her. She sat on it until it stopped growling. She learnt at her commando classes that she has to make the dog submit to her and treat it with force to show him she's the top dog.
    Commando classes are very well known and many have had training there. I am surprised that you, as a trainer, don't know they exist. They teach you to use force.
    GSD. Thanks for being the voice of reason. You had a sobering effect.

  7. #57
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    Ok I said I was out, but this is my last post.
    Gentle Leader Product Description - Premier Pet
    Read up on it. I know what I would chose first.
    Education not Legislation

  8. #58
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    Im ignoring all the arguing within the posts purely because I have a question and would like some helpful information that isn't going to be thrown at me...


    I was told that halti's were ok to use (by a number of people, ranging from the lady from SAFE who was looking after Chloe, to a vet, to a pet shop owner)...

    Chloe actually chewed through hers whilst waiting for me as i needed to visit the ladies room before we left.. Hers was quite loose on her mouth (we got the large but i think it was too big as she's not a 'big' dog ie, a full breed gsd, rotti etc)....

    Can someone please explain why they are so bad? And also what the hell should I do then? She chokes herself on her normal collar and lead, the halti she responded really well to, and as for choke chains well i'm not going there.

    thanks and sorry for the hijack but IMO it was just a shit fight..

  9. #59
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    Wow - haven't we excited some passionate people?

    I'm with Occy, I don't like to pass judgement on a tool until I know, ideally from personal experience, the facts, a bit of scientific research, based on repeatable experiments and observation of the outcome. Anecdotes do not evidence make - to quote a doctor friend of mine.

    I don't like people who think like Mimi deciding for me what tools I can and cannot use. Prongs are illegal to use on a dog in my state, along with electric collars. And yet electric fences are legal (the sort that zap an animal in the chest or nose if they contact it).

    I have to use a slip chain (choke) collar at my obedience class, they won't allow anything else unless you're a cripple in some way. The noise of the chain being shortened - acts as an early warning to a dog (as should the word "heel"), in class I rarely need to check at all, well I don't but sometimes my dog lunges so she does it to herself. I use the harness for meet and greet before class - because she pulls in any collar in that situation but not in the harness.

    I think an electric collar would be very handy to teach things like "don't play with snakes or lizards" and "don't chase sheep without permission". Especially for dogs that would instinctively attack animals like these.

    In the wrong hands - yes they can be abused.

    I found the gentle leader nose band fixed Frosty's pulling, but she hated wearing it and I had enough trouble getting her to go for walks (she's weird in some ways). I found the best solution for me was the sensible harness - which like the pinch collar - uses the dog's own power against it, but without pinching around the neck. More like putting your hand or a rope across it's chest and shoulder and then pushing its bum around (well the dog does that to itself).
    Dog Harness, Dog Training Supplies | Sense-ible and Sense-ation Dog Harness
    Note the harness attaches at the front - which makes all the difference.

    I've seen a dog break a gentle leader nose band - but it was fitted and used incorrectly.

    Personally - I'd rather try the electric collar over the prong collar for problem dogs. But then again, I've got no personal experience with the prong collar.

    As for cruel, I had to wear bands on my teeth as a child. That was cruel. They were extremely painful and I was teased at school for the way they looked. But right now, I'm quite glad I had them. Bucked teeth weren't any fun either. Maybe in fifty years time (or less) they will look back at those methods of teeth straightening (and similar things used to straighten legs and bad backs) and call it "child abuse".

    Just because a thing might cause temporary pain or discomfort, does not make it inappropriate or "cruel". Letting a dog get bit by a snake or chase cars is worse.

    K9 - I'm not sure it is worth all the effort of dealing with the closed minded, when some of the rest of us are interested in being informed. There's always the "ignore" function if you (or they) need to remove the temptation of responding to a "wind up" or "troll". That's the thing with the internet - at one time, only the computer savvy could get in, but now anybody can and some are completely closed minded.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 11-12-2009 at 09:29 PM.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodz View Post
    Im ignoring all the arguing within the posts purely because I have a question and would like some helpful information that isn't going to be thrown at me...


    I was told that halti's were ok to use (by a number of people, ranging from the lady from SAFE who was looking after Chloe, to a vet, to a pet shop owner)...

    Chloe actually chewed through hers whilst waiting for me as i needed to visit the ladies room before we left.. Hers was quite loose on her mouth (we got the large but i think it was too big as she's not a 'big' dog ie, a full breed gsd, rotti etc)....

    Can someone please explain why they are so bad? And also what the hell should I do then? She chokes herself on her normal collar and lead, the halti she responded really well to, and as for choke chains well i'm not going there.

    thanks and sorry for the hijack but IMO it was just a shit fight..

    I don't like halti's because they rub - it left my dog with a scar. However, head collars in general can injure a dog as most people use them with the same action as a choke chain - sideways correction - when they're really intended for a slow steady pull down and back (which is virtually impossible to do when taking a dog for a walk)

    Have I used them? Yes. Would I use them again? dunno Do I know anyone who would benefit from them? Sure

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