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Thread: Prong Collars, Why?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occy View Post
    Halti's, GLs, pinch collars, etc in and of themselves DO NOT teach a dog not to pull - they are tools to help you teach the dog not to pull. Don't teach the dog and when the tool is removed you have the problem back!
    Lades would walk on her GL, I would say heal, and hold a tight lead until i felt she was walking nicely and I'd loosen the lead. As soon as she moved away from my side, I would say heal and bring her back to my side and so on.

    I don't know what you would classify that as, but it works.
    Education not Legislation

  2. #42
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought these collars were illegal in some states.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemyf7 View Post
    Too much for me to reply too, but I'll say...

    - A halti and a gentle leader are two different things. Its a yes for gentle leaders, and a no for haltis(IMO)
    K9: I dont use either as they use leverage against the spine to achieve a result at a high risk. Not for me as I have tried &tested them in as many circumatsnces as I can & after through research decided against them.

    -I have dealt with messed up necks due to prong collars.
    K9: I would be intereted to seee evidence if this, as I dont believe it.

    Can you define what a messed up neck is?

    -As I have said twice, and Occy has backed me up. Im sure they work but there are better alternatives.
    K9: regardless of who backs you up, I am still asking what is the better alternative?

    I think it should be a last resort
    .

    K9: Last resorts teach dogs that trainers are quitters, dogs that learn this will put up with copious amounts of needless punishment expecting the trainer to give in, its a bad idea to have a list of semi successful steps or tools.

    Lady was a hideous leash walker until her GL, and now she walks beautifully without. It does train.
    -I only use negative 'punishment', when I know the dogs knows what he/she is doing, and that it is wrong. Never during the learning process.
    K9: I am sorry but your sitation of one dog does not qualify as a decider of what is right & what is wrong.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhound View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought these collars were illegal in some states.
    K9: correct &?

    Euthanasia is legal in all states, dont even need a reason. Go figure.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by k9force View Post
    K9: I dont use either as they use leverage against the spine to achieve a result at a high risk. Not for me as I have tried &tested them in as many circumatsnces as I can & after through research decided against them.



    K9: I would be intereted to seee evidence if this, as I dont believe it.

    Can you define what a messed up neck is?



    K9: regardless of who backs you up, I am still asking what is the better alternative?

    .

    K9: Last resorts teach dogs that trainers are quitters, dogs that learn this will put up with copious amounts of needless punishment expecting the trainer to give in, its a bad idea to have a list of semi successful steps or tools.



    K9: I am sorry but your sitation of one dog does not qualify as a decider of what is right & what is wrong.
    Ok, I don't get why your still having a go at me and im beginning to get annoyed.
    My alternative is a GENTLE LEADER.
    I'll say it AGAIN. Im sure the prong collar has its place, but it shouldn't be a first option.
    Education not Legislation

  6. #46
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    I prefer working with no physical equipment bar a flat collar and lead until I decide what direction I want to take with that dog.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=aussiemyf7;27219]Ok, I don't get why your still having a go at me and im beginning to get annoyed.[\quote]

    K9: gee thats a shame, it never seems to bother anyone if they annoy me?

    My alternative is a GENTLE LEADER.
    I'll say it AGAIN. Im sure the prong collar has its place, but it shouldn't be a first option.
    K9: ok now its clear, thats fine, I dont use head halters by any name or manufacturer because they run the risk of injury & where they have worked, I feel so would a flat collar.

    I dont know any professional trainer in the world that uses head collars to train.

    Last resorts as I said are not the best idea.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

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  8. #48
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    Oh and evidence of what i witness in a vet? Sorry, I don't keep x-rays.

    I heard about this study done involving 100 dogs who wore prong collars. When the dogs died, they carried out autopsies and 78 of them had injuries on their neck, but more so, as I stated before, their trachea.
    If I can find the website I'll post it.

    I wasn't allowed to join dog obedience without Lady wearing a GL(Westernport Obediance Club).
    So there you go.
    Last edited by aussiemyf7; 11-12-2009 at 08:29 PM.
    Education not Legislation

  9. #49
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    K9": I guess the real problem is this, these tools exits & they are useful. Many people dont want this infoirmation out there, but this only leaves people ignorant.

    Ignorant uneducated people end up using the tools & making a mess of it, thats not good for anyone.

    I dont advise anyone use any training tool on a dog without guidance, flat collar or prong.

    Its always the dog that pays.

    Information never hurt anyone.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemyf7 View Post
    Oh and evidence of what i witness in a vet? Sorry, I don't keep x-rays.

    I heard about this study done involving 100 dogs who wore prong collars. When the dogs died, they carried out autopsies and 78 of them had injuries on their neck, but more so, as I stated before, their trachea.
    If I can find the website I'll post it.

    .
    K9: I know of the study but I dont know why you would post it, it shows that prongs cause no damage but check chains did...
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

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