Page 35 of 39 FirstFirst ... 253334353637 ... LastLast
Results 341 to 350 of 383

Thread: Prong Collars, Why?

  1. #341

    Default

    there would be a hell of a lot less dogs with "issues" if every one had that attitude.

  2. #342
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kurrajong / Hawkesbury
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    The dog prefers sleeping on the couch.

    Sorry - I couldn't help it.

    I think my dog would prefer treat withheld (negative punishment?) to a pop with a correction collar (positive punishment).
    S: perhaps if the treat isnt valuable to your dog, but studies show that removal or a perceived high value reward induces more stress than corrections.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  3. #343
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kurrajong / Hawkesbury
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    Why the heck would you get a dog if you dont have time? I have worked very long hours and had a dog. Up at 5am rain hail or shine or walking till midnight if I had to. Not rocket science - either find the time or wait till the time is right to have a dog.
    S: That is great commitment mate, just not every has it or can make it. Some have long hours they work, children, illness and other time consumers but I think most commonly, they under estimate the time needed.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  4. #344
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Rural Western Australia
    Posts
    2,634

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by k9force View Post
    S: perhaps if the treat isnt valuable to your dog, but studies show that removal or a perceived high value reward induces more stress than corrections.
    They obviously dont know my lot. My BC works twice as hard if I withhold her treat. Any form of correction and she just shuts down. The rest are very treat and toy motivated. Corrections just make my ACDS stubborn and demotivates them.

    Anyway the point is surely not to withhold the treat, it is to set them up for success. Little steps.

    I jackpot extra speed say in agility or if they do something really well, that gets them going!

  5. #345
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Rural Western Australia
    Posts
    2,634

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by k9force View Post
    S: That is great commitment mate, just not every has it or can make it. Some have long hours they work, children, illness and other time consumers but I think most commonly, they under estimate the time needed.
    Yeah sure, I can tick most of the above too and so could a number of friends with busy lives and families I know who bother to make the time. Other friends would like a dog but know they cant commit so they dont get a dog. Simple.

    I just get sick of seeing so many dogs come through our rescue or dumped at our local pound and euthanaised because people didnt have the time and the dogs developed serious issues. Dogs should not be diposable items.

    Sure the unexpected can happen like serious illness etc. but mostly this is not the case. I have even had colleagues who happily dump their "beloved pampered dog" off at the pound when they have a child, or they just shove it out in the backyard and forget about it.

    My rescue Koolie - his previous owners had him for 5 months when they decided they didnt have time to deal with his energy and dropped him off at the pound, where he was picked up by rescue.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 12-10-2010 at 12:50 AM.

  6. #346
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    planet Earth
    Posts
    568

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by k9force View Post
    S: perhaps if the treat isnt valuable to your dog, but studies show that removal or a perceived high value reward induces more stress than corrections.
    What studies. Can we please have a link?
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  7. #347
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kurrajong / Hawkesbury
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    They obviously dont know my lot. My BC works twice as hard if I withhold her treat.
    S: And this indicates the pressure / stress the dog will feel if it makes an error and misses the reward.

    Anyway the point is surely not to withhold the treat, it is to set them up for success. Little steps.
    S: Yes of course but the only way to eliminate mistakes is to show the difference between reward and non reward.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  8. #348
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kurrajong / Hawkesbury
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    Yeah sure, I can tick most of the above too and so could a number of friends with busy lives and families I know who bother to make the time. Other friends would like a dog but know they cant commit so they dont get a dog. Simple.
    S: I am not suggesting that people with no time are doing the right thing by their dogs, I am simply stating that is the way things are commonly, and whether I like it, agree with it or condone it doesn't enter the picture really, it is one of the parameters I need to consider when helping people wit their dogs.

    I just get sick of seeing so many dogs come through our rescue or dumped at our local pound and euthanaised because people didnt have the time and the dogs developed serious issues. Dogs should not be diposable items.
    S: 1000% agree.

    Sure the unexpected can happen like serious illness etc. but mostly this is not the case. I have even had colleagues who happily dump their "beloved pampered dog" off at the pound when they have a child, or they just shove it out in the backyard and forget about it.
    S: seen that too, and worse.

    My rescue Koolie - his previous owners had him for 5 months when they decided they didnt have time to deal with his energy and dropped him off at the pound, where he was picked up by rescue.
    S: I think there is a lot of different categories from the ones that you state to people who underestimate the time that it takes to train a dog to people that find themselves with a real problem dog and cant get out of the problem without help but are committed.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  9. #349
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kurrajong / Hawkesbury
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fedra View Post
    What studies. Can we please have a link?
    S: Yep sure. http://deposit.ddb.de/cgi-bin/dokser...=992370272.pdf

    This is also using a high amount of correction pressure with both the e collar and prong collar, here is a run down, the total study is 200 pages long but I have a brief correlation that is 38 pages in PDF if anyone would like it and this is a summary

    ELECTRIC COLLAR SHOCK
    A research project from the Institute of Animal Welfare and Behaviour in Hannover, Germany compared the stress and learning effects of 3
    different training methods in dogs: electronic training collar, pinch collar and quitting signal. The research by Schalke, et al is reported in the Journal
    of Veterinary Behavior, Vol 4, No 6, November/ December 2009. Of the 3 methods, the e-collar turned out to be the most effective and the least
    stressful Forty two police dogs, all Belgian Malinois, received a different training method on each of 3 test days. The dog’s behavioural and salivary
    cortisol levels were measured. Of the learning effect of each method, the electronic collar resulted in 39 of the 42 dogs stopping the unwanted
    behaviour, the pinch collar stopped 32 of 42 dogs and the quitting signal stopped 4 of the 42 dogs. Concerning the salivary cortisol levels, the quitting
    signal was found to be the most stressful.

    For this type of training it would appear that training with e-collars is the least stressful on the dog and certainly the most effective method.
    S: Like all studies, there would be some aspects not covered or answered but it gives you an idea.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  10. #350
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Rural Western Australia
    Posts
    2,634

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by k9force View Post
    S: And this indicates the pressure / stress the dog will feel if it makes an error and misses the reward.
    S: Yes of course but the only way to eliminate mistakes is to show the difference between reward and non reward.
    Yes I agree that her reaction is a stress reaction but the results are much better than correcting her. I am concluding correction is more stresssful for her as she shuts down and wont work full stop whearas witholding a reward occasionally, she really gets her butt into gear and tries harder.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •