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Thread: Prong Collars, Why?

  1. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by k9force View Post
    K9: Yep thought as much, not willing to share anything at all, just stand back and pick away at others...
    I am not picking. No matter what I say, you will have a comeback, an excuse, so I really do not see the point. As far as sharing, I think I've shared enough on this forum and I will continue if I see the need and if I see that I might help.

    As I said, I do not like "tools" and aversive methods, and if you do, or anyone else does it's your choice so feel free...

    And now, I am really leaving this topic and will not reply to any of your posts here so don't bother writing back.

    cheers!
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  2. #312
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    F: And now, I am really leaving this topic and will not reply to any of your posts here
    K9: lol where have I heard that before?

    F: I see no point in arguing with you K9 any longer
    F: yadda yadda yadda.... as I already said before, no point talking to you. bye.
    F:And now, I am really leaving this topic and will not reply to any of your posts here so don't bother writing back.
    K9: So lets just say I wont be believing too much of what you say...

    F: so don't bother writing back.
    K9: salutes but wonders about the following:-

    Why are prong collars so bad, unless Fedra decides to use one...

    Why would you put a prong collar on an aggressive dog for restraint? It would only lunge into the collar as it would have low impulse control and thus would hurt itself?

    Why is this story of the aggressive dog a long story that you wont seem to share (even though you seem to be the expert here), but can happily type reply after reply when you say you wont be replying any more?

    Why do you out an out lie (saying my website was full of aversive tools, when it clearly is not? We are the largest professional tug toy manufacturer in Aust and sell these all over Aust, PNG, NZ etc, tugs and leather leashes are our biggest selling item and they predominate our website.

    In your earlier post you seemed to not know what I meant when I said low pack drive...

    I said

    Dogs that work on trust alone are few and far between, dogs do what works for them, if they dont want your trust as they have low pack drive, they will do nothing for you.


    and you replied

    F: Low pack drive???


    K9: Gee, with all that psychology that you have studied, I thought this would be basic to you...

    Finally, your welcome to your opinion Fedra as is everyone here, but so am I. My opinion is that prong collars can be used without striking in fear, Learned Helplessness, pain or injury.

    Abuse is in the user not the tool.

    People who need to use one shouldnt be attacked or smeared or made to feel they are harming their dog, with good instruction people can use one of these tools (or other tools) to help them over come issues that make owning or training their dogs a very difficult task without one.

    There are dogs out there that will not extinguish a habit simply because you offer them something tasty, or they trust you, it is either lack of experience, blind faith, politics or liars that think it can be done with every dog.

    Some people can do it with some dogs, that is no reason to berate a person who cant do it with their dog...
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  3. #313
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    I dont disagree with prong collars as long as they are used correctly.

    Someone said they haven't seen any proof of injury from prong collars, not sure if you mean used incorrectly or otherwise.

    Have you heard of google?

    http://gameinformer.com/cfs-filesyst...dex_5F00_2.jpg

  4. #314
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    K9: Yep I have seen that pic before, the story that goes behind it was that the collar was left on indefinatly if I remember correctly, the pic below is from the same thing although this was from check chain.

    It really takes an owner who spends no time with their dog for this to happen, the type of collar is not relevant.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  5. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by k9force View Post
    K9: Yep I have seen that pic before, the story that goes behind it was that the collar was left on indefinatly if I remember correctly, the pic below is from the same thing although this was from check chain.

    It really takes an owner who spends no time with their dog for this to happen, the type of collar is not relevant.
    Thanks for clarifying that for me K9force. I wasn't sure whether it was due to misuse or not.

    Although I beg to differ that yes the type of collar is relevant. A nylon collar wouldn't have caused anywhere near that damage.

    But at the same time...what sort of DH leaves a prong OR check chain on a dog indefinitely?

    Some people......*sigh*

  6. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeTheDeedNotTheBreed View Post
    Thanks for clarifying that for me K9force. I wasn't sure whether it was due to misuse or not.
    K9: No worries, there is a similar one that shows a dog injured by a containment system collar, the full story is that it was missused also, but the pics are pretty graphic.

    Although I beg to differ that yes the type of collar is relevant. A nylon collar wouldn't have caused anywhere near that damage.
    K9: Actually they do, sometimes more. Reason is that the "holes" in the dogs neck arent from the prong collar being pulled, the holes would be right next to each other as the prong collar links come close together when pulled.

    These holes form through pressure necrosis, the collar points sit in the same place so long (made easy by that dogs coat too) that they kill the skin through pressure, like a bed sore.

    Then the rubbing of the collar with bacteria trapped under it causes the skin to open up and you have this mess.

    Nylon collars harbour a lot of bacteria in their webbing, I have seen a nylon collar totally disapear and grow into the dog.

    Hey we well nylon martingales too so I am not against them, some people just need to not own pets...

    But at the same time...what sort of DH leaves a prong OR check chain on a dog indefinitely?

    K9: I am with you really, this sparks just one thing that I think needs mentioning here too, prob should be another thread.

    There are two camps when it comes to leaving collars on dogs.

    Camp 1.
    Dogs wear tags and have collars on all the time. Never had a problem with it.

    Camp 2.
    Will not leave collars on dogs unsupervised due to the hanging / choking risk.

    I am in camp 2 but know hundreds of people in camp one who have never had an issue.

    Obviously it is camp 1 extreme to fit a collar and never take it off, imagine if you put on a pair of shoes and never took them off. What would happen to your feet....
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  7. #317
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    ouch that picture sends shivers down my spine.

    well, i am a camp 2, but dont mind camp 1 aslong as they keep doing the right thing and checking the collars on growing dogs and adjust it.

    but also another reason i didnt like collars, is that collars where when we went out.
    i know my dogs learnt if my brother left the door open, they wouldnt go wondering around the streets.
    tho my dogs where taken to dog club every weekend, and most tuesday nights when they had night training.

    as far as prong collars go, aslong as they are used by the right person who is trained, then i got no problem with them, and the dog requires that training so solve a problem.

  8. #318
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    StevenW this is a pretty rational and intelligent reply...
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  9. #319
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    I also see no problem with prong collars in responsible and knowledgeable hands. When I first saw a picture of one my reaction was OMG, how barbaric.

    I am in camp 1 with collars. I check them all the time for the right fit. My the pups, now 8 months old have grown and gone through collars. They also get taken off when inside at times and they love a good scratch from me in that area.

    We are on a farm. If I was in a suburban house, well enclosed yard then the collars would only be on when we went out.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  10. #320

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    My dogs are all dogs are much more. They are part of my family. They are our friends, our companions. I am compassionate and faithful. They soothe our nerves, improve our wounds and dispel our sorrows. They are as much a part of us that we do not stand to see them sick or in pain. They are sixth finger on our hands.

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