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Thread: Prong Collars, Why?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimi1 View Post
    I cannot believe my ears/eyes!! How can you love a dog and hurt it at the same time?
    K9: Are your dogs microchipped?

    I just watched the Video posted here about Christian the Lion. Obviously trained with lots of love and care... It is the ONLY way.
    K9: Here is what I find strange.

    I have been told only two people so far here that Love, care, respect etc is the only way to educate, but the minute I turn up apparently needing education, I recieve none of that from those that promote it....

    Chriustian was released to freedom, I wonder why? When are you freeing your dogs?

    K9 it is a business that you run. The more misbehaved and problematic the dogs are, the better for you!
    K9: Yep for sure, people have been coming to see me to have their dogs trained for 27 years & all I do is make them worse, I wonder how I have survived all this time with no advertising other than word of mouth.

    How rude of you to suggest that...

    I think that it would be wise for you never to touch any type of training tool, because you lose your self control the minute you see the word prong typed, heaven knows what you would do to a dog.

    I said that Mimi's papers stated that she is a Bull Terrier because Bull Terriers are meant to be fierce and yet she isn't.
    K9: who says they are? Thats not my opinion, I bet your against BSL also but you seem to be telling how they are meant to be?

    I have not used ANY method to train her. My method was the same as I was with my children when they were little. Firm but gentle guidance.
    K9: Just so you know, dogs are not kids or Lions, & what you did was a method, otherwise it would be simply guesswork.

    If it wqorked for you & yoiur dog thats great, but will it work oin every dog, no.

    If you think it will, I can send a car to pick you up & bring you to my training centre & you can show me how to work with dogs.
    Steve Courtney, K9 Pro - The K9 Professionals

    www.k9pro.com.au

    Official Forum Trainer and Behaviourist

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimi1 View Post
    hear hear Aussie. Liza, there was a thread on this forum about training the owners rather than the dogs. That 99% of the time it is the owners' fault if the dog is unruly! I believe this to be true. I have had dogs all my life. Throughout my childhood we had Dobermann and later when I married, I had a poodle, a Fox Terrier, a Pomeranian, a Jack Russell and Mimi who is of medium size and believed to be part Bull Terrier and part Jack Russell (she is too tall to be either). Your dog responds to YOU. YOU are the one to set its temperament right and curb its excesses. To use force is to be cruel. It is as simple as that.
    Actually, it isn't as simple as that. Dogs and wolves use force in the wild, they respond to it. I'm not saying you should put a prong on your Jack Russel and let it do its thing, I'm saying in my opinion the prong collar and a certain amount of force have a place and time in dog training. It's great that you've never needed to use a prong collar with your dogs. I haven't used one with Keeda either, but your dogs aren't all dogs.

  3. #23
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    No Liza. My dogs aren't all dogs they are much more. They are a part of my family. They are our friends, our companions. They are compassionate and loyal. They calm our nerves, they heal our wounds and dissipate our sorrow. They are so much a part of us that we cannot bear to see them sick or in pain. They are the sixth finger on our hands.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussiemyf7 View Post
    The Gentle Leader if standard 'short least training' doesn't work.

    In my view, its controlling the dog through punishment, which isn't neccessary. If the dog pulls, it gets pinched. I believe training through praise rather than punishment is a better way to go about things.
    They have also been proven to cause injuries and trauma on the dogs neck, more specifically, their trachea.
    Yes, most likely because they were used incorrectly but so what? Only 'experianced' people can use it? I don't think 'unexperienced' people should be encouraged to use them then.
    Now that the can of worms has been opened...I want to talk about head halters and check chains too. I hate head halters and will never use them on any of my dogs EVER AGAIN. Of course I have tried them and my dog completely shut down like a light has been switched off. They are dangerous...painful for the dog, must be extremely uncomfortable and only manages the problem...doesn't actually fix it!!! They should not be allowed to be sold off the shelf to any Tom, **** and Harry without professional fitting and explanations as to have to use them PROPERLY!!!! The Gentle Leader halter is THE most horrible thing I have seen! It had to fitted so tight over the nose and under the chin, that my dog had problems breathing. He couldn't open his mouth properly...THEY should be banned!

    Check collars...they are up there with head halters. They are often put on the dog too big, because you need to get it over the dog's head. They slip down on the neck and put extreme pressure on the trachea! This can cause permanent damage and still a lot of people use them.

    Prong/pinch collars are fitted to your dog. You don't slip them over your dogs head. The whole idea is not to yank your dog down the street. It is a gentle pull and the collar pinches the neck. There is no need for force...the collar does the job for you. I have not used one, because I have not needed it. I have to say though...after reading about it...that if I ended up with a dog that kept on yanking me down the street and he would continually hurt my spine...I would be open to trying it under professional guidance.

    Sumo pulls like a typical staffy and he is bloody strong. He wears a
    Martingale collar, but I think he could just as well be wearing a simple leather collar. For now I can manage it, but I might not be able to for the next 12-15 years.

    We tell our children that they can't say they don't like foods if they haven't tasted them.

    How can people comment negatively to the prong/pinch collar if they haven't tried them. I was guilty of that saying that I don't believe in them, but my perception has changed. I have decided to stop being ignorant and start being more open-minded. I KNOW I don't like head halters because I have tried them. I KNOW I don't like check collars because I have tried them. I DON'T KNOW if I would like a prong collar on my dog, because I have not tried it or seen it in action.
    Last edited by Cleasanta; 11-12-2009 at 06:58 PM.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimi1 View Post
    No Liza. My dogs aren't all dogs they are much more. They are a part of my family. They are our friends, our companions. They are compassionate and loyal. They calm our nerves, they heal our wounds and dissipate our sorrow. They are so much a part of us that we cannot bear to see them sick or in pain. They are the sixth finger on our hands.
    The fact that we consider dogs to be part of our families does not change the fact that a dog is a dog, not a person. The fact that so many dog owners humanize their dogs and treat them like little people is the reason why we need people like K9. I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this post - that you should treat your dog like a person? Does your dog have a seat at your dinner table and eat out of your plate? Do you give it a knife and a fork? Do you feed it chocolate?

  6. #26
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    "Dogs and wolves use force in the wild, they respond to it."
    Liza, this doesn't make sense. When was the time when the dogs were wolves? Things have changed since. Do you still have the instinct to hunt and kill for your food? This is what prehistoric man did!

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimi1 View Post
    "Dogs and wolves use force in the wild, they respond to it."
    Liza, this doesn't make sense. When was the time when the dogs were wolves? Things have changed since. Do you still have the instinct to hunt and kill for your food? This is what prehistoric man did!
    Actually, men do still have the instinct to be the providers, protectors, and leaders and women still have the instinct to nurture and care for their young.

    Do you really treat your dog exactly like you would a little person, feed it everything you would a person? That's very worrying.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by k9force View Post
    K9: Are your dogs microchipped?

    Yes. It is a requirement by law.


    Chriustian was released to freedom, I wonder why? When are you freeing your dogs?

    Christian was released to freedom out of love. He is a wild animal and since you know about animals, I will not explain further why.

    K9: Yep for sure, people have been coming to see me to have their dogs trained for 27 years & all I do is make them worse, I wonder how I have survived all this time with no advertising other than word of mouth.

    How rude of you to suggest that...

    It was not my intention to be rude. What I meant was that you had a vested interest in saying what you were saying.

    I think that it would be wise for you never to touch any type of training tool, because you lose your self control the minute you see the word prong typed, heaven knows what you would do to a dog.

    I promise I never will. That you can bet!

    K9: who says they are? Thats not my opinion, I bet your against BSL also but you seem to be telling how they are meant to be?

    That is what I heard. I don't care what Mimi is. She can be half bear, it wont matter one bit.



    K9: Just so you know, dogs are not kids or Lions, & what you did was a method, otherwise it would be simply guesswork.

    Call it what you will. I just follow my instincts and try to understand their behaviour.

    If it wqorked for you & yoiur dog thats great, but will it work oin every dog, no.

    We are all different. Dogs do not chose their owners. It is up to the owner to do their bit so the dog fits in well.

    If you think it will, I can send a car to pick you up & bring you to my training centre & you can show me how to work with dogs.
    I am not a trainer and don't want to be one. So thanks. Not interested.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liza View Post
    The fact that we consider dogs to be part of our families does not change the fact that a dog is a dog, not a person. The fact that so many dog owners humanize their dogs and treat them like little people is the reason why we need people like K9. I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this post - that you should treat your dog like a person? Does your dog have a seat at your dinner table and eat out of your plate? Do you give it a knife and a fork? Do you feed it chocolate?
    So let's torture them, kick them, call them names!
    OMG Liza you begin to sound like an advertisement. You mention K9 too often for it to be legit.
    The rest of your post does not deserve an answer. It is just too silly for me to even bother.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimi1 View Post
    So let's torture them, kick them, call them names!
    OMG Liza you begin to sound like an advertisement. You mention K9 too often for it to be legit.
    The rest of your post does not deserve an answer. It is just too silly for me to even bother.
    Torture is a human invention. Dogs don't torture each other. Applying force is not applying torture. Are you saying that anything that isn't human should be tortured? Is that how you think of other animals? I mention K9 because he started the thread and I agree with him. Why doesn't my post deserve an answer? You're saying that dogs are the same as people - why don't you feed them the same things? Could it be because they're dogs, not humans? Because they can die if you treat them exactly as you would treat a person?

    You just said yourself - you aren't a trainer and don't want to be. Then why are you trying to dictate to a trainer how dogs should or should not be trained, if you aren't even interested in learning more about dog training or his training methods and can't even articulate an answer when asked about what you feed your dogs since to you they may as well be human.

    I'm off to see my dog, who will be walking on four legs as opposed to two and receiving dog treats.

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