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Thread: Prong Collars, Why?

  1. #261

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    I'm not a dog trainer but have engaged dog trainers previously. I used a dog training mob that uses a dominance approach. I called them because my BC was a little naughty as a puppy and they agreed to help me for free with my GS. My GS had always been scared of other dogs (she was attacked by a pack of 3 dogs when about 6 months old) and I found it really hard to take her out in public. My GS was about 11 yo when I called these people. After a couple of sessions my GS was running around happily with other dogs and not being at all defensive. I was (and still am) very impressed by the person who helped me with this. The person who did this ended up being promoted so when I phoned the next time I received a different trainer. This trainer has caused permanent damage to one of my dogs because of the method she used.

    What I am saying is that I wouldn't dismiss any form of training, it depends on the individual dog. My concern is more with the individual trainer because when we pay the dollars we kind of expect an expert who knows what they're talking about.

    I can't say I would allow the prong collar on any of the dogs I have owned, but maybe there are circumstances where it helps, all dogs are different and have different reactions to different training methods.

    Allbreeds, are you the guys that go to Riverside Gardens?
    Last edited by Mollinator; 06-26-2010 at 11:09 PM.

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by allbreeds View Post
    Other means what other means dont be so vague.Tell us how you do it.
    I can't tell you because it depends on a dog. I definetelly would never ever use prong or even a choke chain simply because dog pulls.

    The thing is that dogs are NOT born "bad" or "disobedient" or "naughty". It's always people who stuff things up and then want to cure the problem quickly when it escalates and when they can't deal with it any longer.

    A prong collar in my opinion and i guess many others that use them will NOT curb aggression on its on. And then of course what sort of aggression are you talking about?
    And why only large dogs? ive seen more agressive dogs that are cute white and fluffy than large ones.
    When you face caucasian ovtscharka that weights over 50-60 kilos and all you see is foaming snapping jaws you know why.

    I don't see the point of having a prong collar on small dogs aggro or not.

    Patience?? people pay money to get their dogs trained they havent got patience they want their dog "fixed".
    I don't work with such people. I don't have time for their bull. They f*** up the dog and then they have a face to say they "don't have time". That's why I don't have many clients, but the thing is - I don't train to earn money, although I do get paid for my work, it's not my main source of income that i depend on. I do it because I really want to help people and their dogs. Those who don't want it (or don't have patience) - I can't help. My work consists on building a trusting human-dog relationship and that requires patience and time. Classic obedience is fine, but I'm into something a bit more deeper.
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  3. #263

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedra View Post
    I can't tell you because it depends on a dog. I definetelly would never ever use prong or even a choke chain simply because dog pulls.

    The thing is that dogs are NOT born "bad" or "disobedient" or "naughty". It's always people who stuff things up and then want to cure the problem quickly when it escalates and when they can't deal with it any longer.

    A dog can only be disobedient if it isnt trained properly.If it hasnt been trained it cant be disobedient as it doesnt know what it has to obey anyway.And yes there are aways some people that only come to obedience when they realize that their dog is out of control in way way or another.

    When you face caucasian ovtscharka that weights over 50-60 kilos and all you see is foaming snapping jaws you know why.

    Foaming snapping jaws firstly requires a muzzle not a prong collar.And why are you facing it you should be on the blunt end of the dog not the sharp end

    I don't see the point of having a prong collar on small dogs aggro or not.



    I don't work with such people. I don't have time for their bull. They f*** up the dog and then they have a face to say they "don't have time". That's why I don't have many clients, but the thing is - I don't train to earn money, although I do get paid for my work, it's not my main source of income that i depend on. I do it because I really want to help people and their dogs. Those who don't want it (or don't have patience) - I can't help. My work consists on building a trusting human-dog relationship and that requires patience and time. Classic obedience is fine, but I'm into something a bit more deeper.
    See we arent that discerning.We accept everybody.If they have the time to come to dog training we will help them.And like you we also train dogs as a "part time" venture which doesnt make money but pays for hire of oval etc.
    We also build a trusting human-dog relationship but just because we use prong collars and choker chains doesnt mean the dogs dont trust their owners.

    Finally you never really answered my question ..have you used prong collars before??

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by allbreeds View Post
    See we arent that discerning.We accept everybody.
    Oh, you got it wrong I don't discriminate people, but there are people who just won't accept certain facts and therefore I can't work with them although I wish to. My mother in law is one of those people and it makes me really sad to see how she can't get along with her dog. Because her answer is "Oh, I can't be bothered", yet she gets very upset when dog jumps allover everything and everyone. On contrary, she's amazed that her dog never jumps on me because I don't put up with her bull**. I never used prong colar on her, not even a check chain.

    We also build a trusting human-dog relationship but just because we use prong collars and choker chains doesnt mean the dogs dont trust their owners.
    ok. you think it does. I think what you achieve by using this methods is so called learned helplessness. I don't believe in quick fixes anyway.

    Finally you never really answered my question ..have you used prong collars before??
    Yes I did, in a very extreme situation I described above. And I would use it again if I was ever faced with such case. But no, for regular training with "normal" dog I wouldn't use it.
    Last edited by Fedra; 06-27-2010 at 07:19 PM.
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  5. #265
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    The prong collars I have seen used, have little metal fingers, they're flat not spiked and they cause a slight pinch on the dog's neck. The amount of pinch is limited and they don't slide closed and choke a dog or crush the throat like a slip collar can.

    They should never get "stuck in a dog's neck or throat". If this happens there is something wrong with the collar or the way it has been put together and it is not the tool I think of as a "prong collar".

    I think I already said - it's a bit like horse spurs. There are some that are just an aide, ie they make it easier for a horse to feel the heel action from a rider - they have a flat rounded end with no spike or sharp bits. But there are spurs that cut the side of the horse and those are banned and not what most riders are thinking of when they say they use spurs.

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    I think I already said - it's a bit like horse spurs.
    Do you know what spurs can do to a horse? I've seen quite disgusting spur marks on horses. Maybe I'll be a bit off topic, but I don't like using any metal and/or devices on horses either.
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  7. #267
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    Fedra,

    All tools used incorrectly can injure. This does not mean they are a bad tool, just that the person using them does not know how to use correctly or is abusing the tool.

    With all training tools it is wise to be shown how to use them correctly.
    Dogs Aren't Our Whole Lives, But They Make Our Lives Whole


  8. #268
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    as with hammer
    you're not supposed to hit your thumb

    I prefered not to use spurs with my horse. But he was very sensitive.

  9. #269
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    ok. I look at some things differently than you guys and form majority and don't like using any "tools" with dogs or horses. Horses I don't even ride any more because I think it's damaging to their back. Putting a bit in their mouths, shoeing them etc. is out of the question for me.
    Respect and you shall be respected. Animal is always right.

  10. #270
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    any tool used incorrectly can do damage thats completley correct.

    thats why you cannot drive a car until you have a licence.
    operate other equipment without training.

    but think about it..how many slip chains and prong collars are being used by people who have recieved not one bit of advice??

    probably more people than those who have recieved training.....

    IMO i think they should be banned, if not to get rid of, untrained users. but because if you work at it instead of using a quick fix (such as a prong collar), you can get you dog walking nicely without it having to be constantly pinched. we have people here saying they have seen the collars draw blood. we have avocates for the collar say that it only pinches..

    either way i would not like my dog to be cut OR pinched on the neck...i would'nt pinch my dog if she misbehaved inside so why would i pinch her if she misbehaved on a walk?
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