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Thread: Prong Collars, Why?

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleasanta View Post
    Ok...this thing about putting it around your neck...firstly, dog skin is a lot tougher and thicker than ours and secondly, they have fur to give them some protection. You will never get the feel for what it would be like for a dog...which would be less "painful" than for humans.
    That's the thing though, I pulled it quite tight, same with the check chain, and it hurt less than the check chain!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post
    Chill pill, anyone?

    I have personally never used a prong collar. So what, doesn't mean they're not good in the right scenario; doesn't mean the day won't come where I do choose to use one - who knows.

    I use check chains. Never seen one used correctly that didn't release immediately and didn't work brilliantly, but obviously others have had different experiences.
    Maybe I should go off on a rampage? Start crapping off at Occy because she doesn't like them from experience? Maybe start crapping off at Ange because she tried one on herself and was horrified?

    Honestly, let's please keep it calm or none of us will ever learn anything from each other.
    I have no objection what so ever to anyone using check chains properly at all. I do have objections to seeing dogs dragging their owners along the street choking and gasping for breath because the owner doesn't know how to use it though!

    I think Cleas summed it up very well when she said it wasn't about anyones individual opinions at all, but it is about having an educated opinion.

    AF:

    I am talking about deliberate abuse of dogs.. the use of barbaric pain inflicting collars on dogs.. how would you react if such an item was used on you personally.. would you not be aggressive & show anger towards those that physically or emotionally hurt you that is what i mean about some dogs being aggressive & attacking their owners or handlers etc etc.. that is what i mean about KARMA..
    So the use of training tools is abuse of dogs?

    I have no hesitation in keeping an open mind about all kinds of training tools and methods. I learn everything I can about them before forming an opinion of them. If someone is standing there laying into their dogs with their fists or a stick or whatever then yes that is abuse. But the use of a training tool - when used correctly, can literally mean the difference between life and death. If you could train a behavioral issue out of a dog using one of these tools correctly instead of having the same dog put to sleep would you do it? Or would you kill the dog?

  2. #202
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    I have used a prong collar, I prefer to call them power collars...
    I was hesitant to use one, My instructor asked me to put and power collar and a correction chain one on each leg (my leg, not the dogs) and pull up on the leads quickly and suddenly. All I can say is OUCH! the correction chain really hurt. The Power Collar barely hurt. And I had a bruise around my leg from the correction chain and nothing from the Power Coller.

    If I could I would use the power collar over the correction chain... Only the Power Collar is illegal in VIC. I found this collar is an amazing tool in calming a and settling a hyper or aggressive dog.
    I have also heard it being described as a tool that mimics the teeth of a dog on the neck...
    Dogs Aren't Our Whole Lives, But They Make Our Lives Whole


  3. #203
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    wow who opened this up again!! either very brave or very stupid lol

    i came to the conclusion that you can give people advice and info but it comes down to what they want to do..so im over attempting to point people in a direction id like them to go inrelation to prong collars its each to their own .

    oh and AF i think this is actually one topic we agree on GO US lol


    (not intended to inflame the situation further, rather to explain my reasons for bowing out)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela's Gone Batty View Post
    IMO Some parts of pp training actually uses a compulsion component. Ie: Dog doesn't come in when you call it, shut the door and walk away leaving the dog outside and isolated away from the family. Dog learns that it must come inside when called or he gets abandoned, therefore the dog feels compelled to do as he is asked (for a sufficiently social dog) and is more likely to do as asked the next time. I'm not sure if that came out how I was thinking it lol!
    Then either you don't understand compulsion or you don't understand positive training. Which do you need cleared up?

  5. #205
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    The NDTF course will go through ALL the collars with you.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela's Gone Batty View Post
    That's the thing though, I pulled it quite tight, same with the check chain, and it hurt less than the check chain!!



    I have no objection what so ever to anyone using check chains properly at all. I do have objections to seeing dogs dragging their owners along the street choking and gasping for breath because the owner doesn't know how to use it though!I think Cleas summed it up very well when she said it wasn't about anyones individual opinions at all, but it is about having an educated opinion.
    I agree, seeing that is absolutely heartwrenching.

    Bear in mind though, one person's educated opinion can be another person's uneducated opinion.

  7. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleasanta View Post



    You didn't answer my question AF...have you seen all these so called barbaric implements in actions? Have you been educated as to why and how they work when used CORRECTLY? How long ago is it since you have had a dog from puppyhood and had to do the hard yarn yourself in socialisation, training, obedience, toilet training etc etc?
    Yes i have seen the use of such collars being used & also seen a poor victim/ dog (whom's owner was informed by K9 force to use such a collar) waiting in a vets room bleeding like hell, badly injured by the use of such collars & that to me is enough to hate, despise such collars & as for me being educated on how to use them properly.. NO THANKS.. I DON'T LIKE THEM PERIOD & REFUSE TO BE EDUCATED ON THERE USE..

    IMO I DO NOT NEED ANY RUDDY EXCUSE TO DESPISE ANYTHING ETC ETC ETC


    It's been a while since i had to partly train a puppy, in which was my own 1 year old puppy & i did it successfully my way with out force, cruelty etc etc & it worked & it suits me & my dog to a tee & IMO that is fine... I would i ever offer any advice to others how to train a dog.. NO FREAKEN WAY.

    I've never proclaimed to be a dog trainer etc etc, nor would I... but should i ever need the help of dog trainers, i sure wont as hell be asking here or asking or K9force for help either... i don't like him period & IMO need reason is needed at all for my dislike of something or person.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleasanta View Post
    Fair enough mate...but you were not having someone holding the check chain tight in the wrong position while you were trying to move away...compressing your trachea. See...the prong collar works with a pinch and the dog will NOT try and pull and possibly injure itself...just like mummy dog correcting a naughty puppy with pinch of teeth around the neck...that is how it works
    I know that! I'm saying the check chain is worse lol! It hurt like hell. It was on properly and one of the links must have twisted a little or something because it got stuck. It's hard to explain because I'm not exactly sure what happened.

    I agree with the use of prongs when used properly

    Quote Originally Posted by Occy View Post
    Then either you don't understand compulsion or you don't understand positive training. Which do you need cleared up?
    I don't completely understand compulsion to be honest, but I'm researching it at the moment and reading/learning as much as I can about it. I may need to go and re-read.

    I realise that compulsion is basically 'making' a dog do what you want it it (I think) and PP is about getting the dog to want to do what you want of it's own accord. I may need to start a new thread about it! I'll go back and read the two books I have again and I think next month we'll be looking at compulsion methods in my course so I'll see how I go with that for the moment

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Netty View Post
    I have used a prong collar, I prefer to call them power collars...
    I was hesitant to use one, My instructor asked me to put and power collar and a correction chain one on each leg (my leg, not the dogs) and pull up on the leads quickly and suddenly. All I can say is OUCH! the correction chain really hurt. The Power Collar barely hurt. And I had a bruise around my leg from the correction chain and nothing from the Power Coller.

    If I could I would use the power collar over the correction chain... Only the Power Collar is illegal in VIC. I found this collar is an amazing tool in calming a and settling a hyper or aggressive dog.
    I have also heard it being described as a tool that mimics the teeth of a dog on the neck...
    Seriously dude...power collar? Should I call Rufus' martingale an Idontneedpower collar? It's a pinch collar because of what it does or a prong because of what it has - not a power because you are embarrased by it.

    What next? Walking my dog on an empowerment harness?

  10. #210
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    Angela

    think of compulsion as

    If you don't do this, I am going to MAKE you do it

    Recall isn't a good example because you have to be positive or the dog wont come to you IMO

    Use sit for an example.

    Compulsion: Cue sit, push the dogs bum down or give it a correction if it doesn't sit

    Positive: Cue sit, dog doesn't so move a step forward or back depending on the position of the dog and cue again. If dog doesn't sit it obviously doesn't know sit so you have to teach it. Using food raise the dogs head up, as it sits, cue sit.

    Compulsion is often quicker - I know I use it when working on heeling with Rufus and I probably should use more positive methods (he tends to heel with his head down sniffing). Rufus heel - doesn't do it - correction - repeat command - reward. That has an element of compulsion - I am teaching him that if he doesn't do what I say, I will give him a correction - albiet using a leather martingale which couldn't hurt him if I hung him from it (which I would never do).

    Why do I use compulsion?? Two reasons

    1. Time - positive is more time consuming, very hard to do in a class - I have been known to walk away and work with my dog when he has been playing up in class

    2. Rescue dog - Rufus has some hardwiring in him that is very hard to change - my pup will go all positive if I can/if it works. That doesn't mean being namby pamby - that's just bad trainers!! It means firm but fair.

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