Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19

Thread: GRRR other dog owners

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Bunbury
    Posts
    1,337

    Default

    Well it was my day for badly behaved dogs today.

    When Maggie was a puppy a pair of red kelpies made her life difficult and scared the wits out of her ganging up on her and growling and nipping until she shrieked with fear.

    A local boxer was loose in the reserve a few months ago and they had a fight with me ending up head first in the bush when the boxer knocked me off my feet getting to Maggie.

    Today I got into the middle of the reserve and the two kelpies belted out from the left, (instinctively) I clapped my hands loudly and said "Behave yourself" very firmly to the the nearest kelpie and waved Maggie on a wide curve to my right. the other one moved and I said "Don't you dare" and finally they slunk off to the left and we proceeded and exited by another way after our walk.

    Yay to the good advice I have had on this forum, thank you people!

    That led us to another road (my street) where the boxer (about 20kgs and very fit) was running loose while the owner chatted to a neighbour. I called out would she call the dog as they don't get on. She waffled a bit by which time it was heading growling straight to me who had Maggie on a short lead so she had nowhere to go. I placed her beside me and put myself in-between thinking "great, this is not good".

    Some air snapping ensued and much growling from both of them I was debating whether or not to let Maggie off the lead as I figured she had a better chance when she could use her speed to her advantage. Fortunately the boxer turned and the owner tried to catch it, a repeat (when the owner bleated come here instead of clipping the thoroughly roused dog on its lead) ensued...arghh.

    There is clearly a good reason I usually walk at 6am instead of 10.30 as it is the first day of my holidays.
    I really wanted Maggie to be as friendly and affable to dogs as she was when she was a puppy but rude sh=ts like these have made that a distant dream.She never starts anything but she is jumpy now and I can't see how I can change that.

    This has probably undone so much of what we achieved doing our pack walks. She is only 14kgs and lean so while quick is unlikely to win with a big dog and is understandably wary these days. She now hates boxers, kelpies,grey terriers and labradors, a long memory! The only one of them her size is the grey terrier and after a scrap they now ignore each other at the beach which suits me fine.

    Finally we continued up the road with me thinking Grrr Other dog owners!!
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 09-26-2015 at 08:38 PM. Reason: press enter twice between paras then I can read it :)

  2. #12

    Default

    Maybe we all should be looking at learning how to do this when our pups are on a lead!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmiZYIAnhI

  3. #13

    Default

    Keep all the experiences and advice coming. I'm very interested to see how people are handling these situations. I grew up with one lab on 170 acres, so only ever had to worry about her rolling in cow manure and eating disgusting things. Living in the suburbs, lots more to think about and learn with dog etiquette

    I'm wondering also if part of the aggression issue from others is from him being a pup and not knowing the rules yet, is he just being rude in his greeting?

    Anyway It happened again today. We were at a very popular town with a river dogs can swim in and it being a nice day people and dogs everywhere. He was having a blast and really starting to settle on his walk. Met some really polite dogs and owners.
    Then one dog a big Bullmastive cross came up. Now I know what you all mean by body language that is aggressive. This dog was looking at Corey (pup) as if he was prey. Head down and fully focused and running. Yelled at husband to watch out which he did, but dog reached him before he had a chance to do anything. He tried to bite Corey and was growling non stop. Pup was in harness so husband automatically whipped him up off the ground and was holding him away from the other dog who was still trying to get him. Poor darling was SCREAMING in fear. Lady owner was yelling at her dog but didn't make any difference.

    She finally got to him and put him on leash. We continued on our walk but he was very shaken. Luckily we met a few puppies and then later on went back to the spot and met two beautiful old golden retrievers that were playing in the water and owners put in down position for me, as they could see he was shaking. He then relaxed a lot and went and said hello. PHEWWW

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Rural Western Australia
    Posts
    2,302

    Default

    I really avoid other dogs coming up to my pup unless I have made contact with the owner. I had a GSD attack my pup on the beach years ago and she was reactive to GSDS for the rest of her life and generally was not great with other dogs unless she knew them. Another dog I had also had a few not so nice experiences but she was fortunately the type of dog who was was not permanently affected. I tend not to take risks these days.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,057

    Default

    I'm wondering also if part of the aggression issue from others is from him being a pup and not knowing the rules yet, is he just being rude in his greeting?
    They usually learn these rules from their mother and litter mates around the ages 6 to 12 weeks old. If they go home at 8 weeks old - the owner has to make sure they get as many polite dog interactions with as many different dogs in different places.

    Young puppies (6 months or less) usually get a bit of a puppy licence - other dogs will just stand up and walk away if they don't want to play but as they get older the other dogs will scold them robustly and nip if necessary... some of the terriers do not take too kindly to this and will try to "finish it".

    Where things go to hell - is when the puppy gets taken away from the litter at 6 weeks and put in a pet shop environment or just separated. No more manners learning now. And may go home with the new owner at 8 weeks - who gets advised not to let the puppy greet other dogs until all the vax have taken effect. which might be 10 to 14 weeks old - TOO LATE now.

    You can organise play dates with suitably gentle adult dogs and other puppies that have been vaccinated - in home environments before the vax effective period is up. It's a good idea to do this.

    If your puppy doesn't have a good understanding of doggy back off signals by 4 months old - it will be up to the you, the owner to set the limits and show your dog what to do.

    We had a lovely play with a 1yo Vizsla puppy today - adult size nearly - and slightly bigger than my dog. My dog played and wrestled with him for a while and then she'd had enough and came back to me. He was ignoring his owner, so I just grabbed his collar - which he was pretty good about - he didn't notice why he suddenly couldn't try humping my dog any more...

    I held him until his owner called and he paid attention (sort of) at least his attention was off my dog, and then I let him go. Of course - he shot right by his owner to go after the next dog but the owner did grab him and put him back on lead.

    I've tried the windmill thing - it doesn't work for me. The trouble is a dog will circle around you and it's hard to keep the windmill going on all sides without hitting your own dog. But I have been known to use my lead rope as a defensive weapon - I just aim and swing, instead of spining.

    The thing that works best on dogs at their home - is a handful of kibble. I've used this more than once - ideally when the owner is not paying attention - chucking kibble distracts most dogs while you leave promptly.

    Laureah21 - I think you'd really benefit from watching or reading Turid Rugaas :- "Calming signals" dvd or book, her accent is a bit hard to understand sometimes, but I and my dog really enjoyed watching the dvd - which showed really clearly all the doggy communication modes: what can set a dog off and what calms it down.
    Calming signals, photos - Turid Rugaas - International Dog Trainer

    for example - if you see the mastiff first, you can direct your dog to be more side on and less challenging, sniff the ground for food. But what most lab x poodles do - is pull straight at the mastiff like they really want to say hello but all the mastiff sees is a dog that wants a fight. It looks the same to them like a challenge. But you have to spot the other dog early.

    Picking up your dog when the other dog just wants to check is it a dog or a rabbit? can really set off every prey instinct in the approaching dog. But I'm not sure you had much choice in this instance. Try yelling at hubby - "turn sideways"? It's a good thing to practice with nice dogs. Watch how your body language and your dog's body language changes and relaxes the other dogs... turn side on, look away from them (watch out the corner of your eye not a direct stare) easy peasy.

    Your dog screaming when it isn't being touched is not helpful either. That's what rabbits do. I don't understand why some dogs do this but all the other dogs in the park will come rushing over and chase it and make the situation worse.

    In my opinion - your dog needs lots and lots of practice with lots and lots of nice and tolerant dogs... with you setting limits and boundaries (interrupting him and putting him on lead for a bit if he's rude, rough, getting the piss off leave me alone signals and ignoring them)... If the other dog has to bark and growl to make him back off - you left your intervention too late. There's a bunch of "leave me alone" signals most dogs will give before it gets to the growl.

    And if the other owner punishes their dog for the growl - choose another dog and owner pair - you don't want to be trying this with a dog that has a growl that's been punished and suppressed so they go straight to nipping and biting.

    Actually I avoid most owners that punish their dog. I feel that it's an owner fail if they haven't trained their dog what they want it to do... and then they punish the dog for that? At the same time - you want the owner to come and put their dog on lead if it's being rude or naughty, so that behaviour is not rewarded and encouraged through lack of action on the owner's part.

  6. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    They usually learn these rules from their mother and litter mates around the ages 6 to 12 weeks old. If they go home at 8 weeks old - the owner has to make sure they get as many polite dog interactions with as many different dogs in different places.

    Young puppies (6 months or less) usually get a bit of a puppy licence - other dogs will just stand up and walk away if they don't want to play but as they get older the other dogs will scold them robustly and nip if necessary... some of the terriers do not take too kindly to this and will try to "finish it".

    Where things go to hell - is when the puppy gets taken away from the litter at 6 weeks and put in a pet shop environment or just separated. No more manners learning now. And may go home with the new owner at 8 weeks - who gets advised not to let the puppy greet other dogs until all the vax have taken effect. which might be 10 to 14 weeks old - TOO LATE now.

    You can organise play dates with suitably gentle adult dogs and other puppies that have been vaccinated - in home environments before the vax effective period is up. It's a good idea to do this.

    If your puppy doesn't have a good understanding of doggy back off signals by 4 months old - it will be up to the you, the owner to set the limits and show your dog what to do.

    We had a lovely play with a 1yo Vizsla puppy today - adult size nearly - and slightly bigger than my dog. My dog played and wrestled with him for a while and then she'd had enough and came back to me. He was ignoring his owner, so I just grabbed his collar - which he was pretty good about - he didn't notice why he suddenly couldn't try humping my dog any more...

    I held him until his owner called and he paid attention (sort of) at least his attention was off my dog, and then I let him go. Of course - he shot right by his owner to go after the next dog but the owner did grab him and put him back on lead.

    I've tried the windmill thing - it doesn't work for me. The trouble is a dog will circle around you and it's hard to keep the windmill going on all sides without hitting your own dog. But I have been known to use my lead rope as a defensive weapon - I just aim and swing, instead of spining.

    The thing that works best on dogs at their home - is a handful of kibble. I've used this more than once - ideally when the owner is not paying attention - chucking kibble distracts most dogs while you leave promptly.

    Laureah21 - I think you'd really benefit from watching or reading Turid Rugaas :- "Calming signals" dvd or book, her accent is a bit hard to understand sometimes, but I and my dog really enjoyed watching the dvd - which showed really clearly all the doggy communication modes: what can set a dog off and what calms it down.
    Calming signals, photos - Turid Rugaas - International Dog Trainer

    for example - if you see the mastiff first, you can direct your dog to be more side on and less challenging, sniff the ground for food. But what most lab x poodles do - is pull straight at the mastiff like they really want to say hello but all the mastiff sees is a dog that wants a fight. It looks the same to them like a challenge. But you have to spot the other dog early.

    Picking up your dog when the other dog just wants to check is it a dog or a rabbit? can really set off every prey instinct in the approaching dog. But I'm not sure you had much choice in this instance. Try yelling at hubby - "turn sideways"? It's a good thing to practice with nice dogs. Watch how your body language and your dog's body language changes and relaxes the other dogs... turn side on, look away from them (watch out the corner of your eye not a direct stare) easy peasy.

    Your dog screaming when it isn't being touched is not helpful either. That's what rabbits do. I don't understand why some dogs do this but all the other dogs in the park will come rushing over and chase it and make the situation worse.

    In my opinion - your dog needs lots and lots of practice with lots and lots of nice and tolerant dogs... with you setting limits and boundaries (interrupting him and putting him on lead for a bit if he's rude, rough, getting the piss off leave me alone signals and ignoring them)... If the other dog has to bark and growl to make him back off - you left your intervention too late. There's a bunch of "leave me alone" signals most dogs will give before it gets to the growl.

    And if the other owner punishes their dog for the growl - choose another dog and owner pair - you don't want to be trying this with a dog that has a growl that's been punished and suppressed so they go straight to nipping and biting.

    Actually I avoid most owners that punish their dog. I feel that it's an owner fail if they haven't trained their dog what they want it to do... and then they punish the dog for that? At the same time - you want the owner to come and put their dog on lead if it's being rude or naughty, so that behavior is not rewarded and encouraged through lack of action on the owner's part.


    Thanks Hyacinth... This is excellent. I'm going to try and get him out as much as possible and going to up school. I will also have a look at that DVD.
    I will be more picky about who he talks to as well. He was with his litter until about 10 weeks, but then he was the last and by himself for a few weeks. He is definitely a bit rude (wants to lick dogs faces) in greeting. I will try to enforce a more calm polite sitting position when greeting dogs. Thanks!

  7. #17

    Default

    Thanks Hyacinth. I will have a look at Turid Rugaas.

    I am not happy letting him off the leash yet, apart from at my parents property or backyard as we are still practicing come, so it will be more about picking who we speak to I suppose. I am going to set how to be polite rules as well, As you are correct and although he just get wiggly puppy excited, he try's to lick dogs faces, and he is bigger then a lot of small dogs now so the puppy excuse may have gone. Thanks for all your help.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Rural Western Australia
    Posts
    2,302

    Default

    Some adult dogs just don't like puppies in their face and don't give any puppy lisence. I find lots of early simple obedience training right from the start and working to get your puppies focus can help in a lot of situations. So work on teaching puppy good manners and good focus on you, along with interactions with more tolerant adults.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,057

    Default

    He was with his litter until about 10 weeks, but then he was the last and by himself for a few weeks.
    I'm not sure I can believe he was with his litter until 10 weeks. My dog has the most amazing dog to dog manners - and she was with her litter until about 8 weeks and then sleeping separate after desexing around that time - tho they were in pens side by side at the rescue. People who deliberately cross labs and poodles to sell the puppies are sometimes a bit creative with the truth. For example they promise the best of both breeds when they can't actually deliver that with any more chance than the worst of both breeds.

    He is definitely a bit rude (wants to lick dogs faces) in greeting. I will try to enforce a more calm polite sitting position when greeting dogs.
    Licking dogs faces is a puppy thing. He's not too old for this. But if the approach before that was not polite, polite includes glancing away, sniffing the ground, indirect curving approach - then some dogs will see the fast and direct approach from another dog as a threat and may respond loudly and aggressively.

    It's hard for a dog to do a greeting while sitting. A drop is better - that allows the scardy dog to approach and sniff and leave with confidence. It completely reduces the threatening appearance in a way that a sit will not do.

    But if your puppy can hold a nice calm sit - instead of wiggle butt charging up - then he's ready to greet.

    The more dogs he gets too be around even if he doesn't get to say hello - the better - at the moment. A dog obedience club would be ideal for this. Even if you don't join in a class or greet any dogs - work on getting your puppy to be calm around the other dogs - you might have to start far away and as your dog learns to stay calm - then you can get a bit closer.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •