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Thread: Tail between the legs "cure"?

  1. #31

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    Sorry yeah. Unless I really know a dog, I did not mean that specific. I am not a dog whisperer :-O. I just meant that if I try to connect with the dog and I get a poor response, a tummy upset could be one possible reason. If I know the dog well, maybe, just maybe, I can ID the way they feel more often than not.

    What concerns me with the idea that the herder should stop is that, while that may work for its boss it may not work for other people, especially if they have a different idea of how to give commands, interact etc. IME many dogs will sit for their owner but not strangers.

    Thanks for the link. Great!

    Nick

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Adelaide
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    many dogs will sit for their owner but not strangers.
    My dog will only work for me. Or people who know how to weild treats. Mostly she just treats people with treats like a bushranger treats people with money... ie she just yells at them until they hand over all their treats. No matter how hard I try I cannot persuade strangers to even try to make her work for food. I even show them what she can do and they still just hand it all over for nothing but barking.

    A herding dog should stop when it's owner says. But you (owner) have to train that.

    You can train a dog to respond to more than one person but that means training more than one person to train your dog... which is hard. Tho my dog can spot a treat hand out across a football oval.

  3. #33

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    Our girl Tess used to just stare, sometimes sitting anyway. Every now and then, in a fit of enthusiasm, she would stand and sniff. I dissuaded that last one, as she was a powerful and hefty pooch, of the medium sized sort.

    Interestingly I try to dissuade chance met people from giving treats to my dogs, and if they do, I would actually prefer that making the dog work is _not_ done. I do not want my dogs taking food from strangers (for safety's sake I want me to be the only source of food outside the house), and I prefer that other people, who are not going to interact with my dogs more than a few times, do not attempt to "train" them with treats.

    This is not some ownership jealousy....well not all . It's more that I use treats sparingly to train, and usually phase them out if I develop that rapport with a dog, replacing them with caresses and kind words. So I do not want treats reintroduced into the equation. Also, if they are not encouraged, my mates _might_ back off cadging so much! :O. While cadging may be OK to many people, I have seen someone trying to socialise their dog with treats, and of course all that happened was that a pack hung around, scaring the poor thing and making the whole exercise very difficult for both trainer and dog.

    In any situation I want my wishes to override all others, should an urgent situation arise. I am afraid that having other people control the dog could undermine that, if it happens often enough. In the park where I go there could be a dozen people almost constantly handing out treats.

    So I am happy if people make a complete fuss of my guys, just for the sake of it, but prefer no feeding.

    It's just my way, I guess.

    Nick

  4. #34

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    How are you and the new pups going ?

  5. #35

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    Thanks for asking! leaps and bounds. It's all good. They are both lovely dogs and very well behaved. We have had some pinching of food off tables, but never a repeat, so it's just a bounds thing. I am happy to allow mistakes without any repercussions, but both of them are afraid of results after a bark or scolding from me, I think. Our last girl Tess could be left with food on a chair or low table, meat in the car etc and only once ...ever...did she steal a chicken drumstick off a low table and all I did was to tick her off. If I can get these guys half that good I will be happy.

    The foster carers got Benny to chase and retrieve, and now he is learning to search for a lost ball. We have lots of bushes and scrub, so I can throw the ball so it gets hidden. He is still not that good at it but he really tries, whereas he would just walk back and look at me if the ball went missing.

    Peg's idea is to tear after Benny and attack him. This has caused one tiff, but it stopped instantly with an "OI!" from me. Now he just has a bark and they keep running.

    We met horses on a shared path the other day. They were on lead so it was controllable, but Peg was not that happy. I still cannot believe she did ANY good as a cattle dog! Benny, as I knew, was quite interested. We got their attention and treated them, but he could still smell them and yearned a bit.

    We are having walks. I am dieting poor old Benny. It's hard to have two dogs, one of whom you are trying to fatten and the other make leaner. But there have been no food fights.

    So as I said to the rescue people, I am as happy as a pig in muck. I hope the dogs are too. They seem to be.

    Nick

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Adelaide
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    Hi Nick

    I've got mixed feelings about letting my dog cadge treats. It is entertaining to watch her do the equivalent of a drug dog search - checking for food. And sometimes I think she "indicates" people who haven't wiped their bottoms properly (hmm?).

    There's been more than one person who says "no I don't have any" and neither of us believe them. She's even insisted I have treats when I thought I didn't, and she's always right.

    So some of the people who just can't help themselves when it comes to treats - I make sure I use them and the massive distraction as a training opportunity and that my dog works really hard for permission to cadge treats. And if she's rude about it - she goes back on lead - but some of those people reward her rudeness and then complain about it. So not sure about that. The worse of these people - she stays on lead so I can stop her being so rude.

    I think a lot of people don't believe she won't snatch if they pull their hand away with the treat when she's naughty (failed to keep four feet on the ground). I guess quite a lot of dogs will do that and it can hurt.

    The next dog will not get so much "re-inforcement" from the environment - but when I got her - I didn't know any better and I swear - she's a natural forager.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Western Sydney
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    I wouldn't worry about her tail and I wouldn't take any notice of the rescue guy either...ignore it and concentrate on getting her to bond with you first which could take 6 months or more.

    Of cause she's going to be scared as she has never been socialized...been around other dogs (apart from where she was) or people or in a house in a family situation and sounds like never been to the vets either.

    My GSD Chloe was a rescue...she was kept in the backyard by herself for the first 6 mths of her life then dumped in the pound. I got her from GSD rescue when she was 7.5 mths old (now 3 yrs old). Chloe wasn't hand shy so we knew she hadn't been bashed and having raised two GSDs before her I thought it was going to be easy...was I wrong.

    The day after I got her I took her to the vet...she wouldn't go in the door and nearly fully grown it took all my strength to drag her in. She also had her tail between her legs but that was the least of my worries...she wouldn't get on the scales and when the vet tried to examine her she bit the vet twice...resulting in a muzzle on her.

    When the vet tried to clip her claws she would struggle...bite and try to get away and since she wouldn't let me clip her claws (she would struggle bite me too) Chloe had to go to the vet every month to get her claws done which wasn't fun. When she started all breeds training she had her tail between her legs too...but that wasn't the worst part...in class she again would struggle bite the lead and me while trying to get away.

    I asked both rescue and all breeds training...why is she doing this...all breeds didn't have a clue and said give her back and rescue said "if you don't want her give her back"...giving her back was never going to happen as we love her.

    I did over time discover why she was behaving like this...it all boils down to bonding...I was a stranger to her...once she bonded with me (over 6 mths) I noticed a big change in her...no problems at the vets and I can clip her claws (that took 14 mths). Chloe is still naughty...strong willed and stubborn but thats just her.

    A few months ago I took Chloe to a shelter to see another dog...she stood there with tail between legs but did lean forward to smell the staffs hands with no fear...the funny thing is Chloe is not scared of thunder or fireworks...never has...so I hope my little rant may help you.

    I'd just like to add...these poor rescue dogs have not had the best start to their lives and are much harder to handle etc than a puppy...we don't know what has happened in their past and you need the patience of a saint...I've only had two rescues so I'm no expert but what I have noticed is with a lot of hard work it's all worth it in the end.

    Just one more thing...there's no such thing as an Alsation...the name is German Shepherd Dog...Dog being part of the name...on forums I type GSD which is easier.
    Last edited by Dogman; 04-26-2015 at 06:46 PM.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  8. #38

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    Well I will say something, your experience with your poor Chloey is WAY worse than any of mine have ever been. I really admire your strength to not take her back, when everyone was telling you to. My hat's off to you!

    Sorry about the Alsatian thing. I did know, just my childhood staying stuck.

    Surprisingly, Peg has bonded with me already, for all her past. This morning I was feeling despondent about a problem and I sat on the couch feeling pretty glum. Peg jumped up on the couch at the other end and slowly came toward me: I think she realised that all was not well. She sat next to me and rested against me and I stroked her, and I could _feel_ the mental poison washing out of me. It was her approach that made me think she was feeling my unhappiness: normally she is much more quick to jump up and cuddle, this time she was hesitant and tentative. Almost coy

    I think she does not mind the change from chasing angry cattle and being screamed at, half starved and left alone in a concrete cage all night....funny that .

    It's just the new situations that hit hard. That make me feel for her, but not worried. My last girl was VERY scared, of just about anything. We _did_ take 18 months that time: she was a mess. So I have been there.

    I am fortunate in that I am retired and am at home all day. This does mean that I have all day to bond and I have made it my vocation for a while. This does mean that household and yard chores are all up the chute, let alone anything I _want_ to do. But even that one incident this morning (and there have been many others, although not as touching) made it worth it. I take every opportunity to touch and manipulate the dogs and although it's inetnse, hard work (although not onerous ) and then there is night, when I am woken 2-3 times for a cuddle and a play.

    I am tired buut happy.

    Benny is more his own man, but still does not mind a pat and a cuddle at all, again in spite of a 9 year's life of being worked and ignored. He is however very gentle so far. I have picked him up to weight him and he just takes it.

    I have not yet tried toenails! I have been playing with and manipulating their feet in an attempt to ease that one.

    So, I have been intensely involved, but extremely lucky with the dogs that came my way.

    Nick

  9. #39

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    HAH! I would have thought that a "GSD"was a "gun shy dog"! ...which Benny certainly is. The guy down the back occasionally pops off a shotgun and a pretty heavy rifle, and Benny is OFF.

    BUT...and this is weird for me...Benny is terrified of...cameras! I tried to take some photos with a DSLR camera and he ran away. So I tried with a camcorder, same result. So I tried with a tiny action cam...he runs away. In all of this I have sat down with him and some treats, patted him, spoken soothingly to him, and treated him while slowly bring the camera into view and as he settles to it start firing the camera: this with all 3 cameras I have tried. This works and he completely settles to the sight and sound of the cameras..until 1/2 hour later or whatever and I bring out the camera again, and he runs away. Also in all of this I am using longer lenses and standing 5-10 m away. It does not help. If I even point the camera at Benny, he usually gets up and slinks off. Focusing or (god forbid) firing the shutter, seals the deal.

    I am going to keep working on the acclimatisation and treats, but I just find it weird. It's like I am going to steal his soul or something! It's more strange because apart from guns (fair enough) he is so even and cool about everything else.

    Nick

  10. #40
    Join Date
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    Location
    Western Sydney
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    We also think Chloe was taken away from her mother too soon because she would pinch us with her front teeth just like young puppies do at every chance she got and it hurt like hell and did this all the time.

    Chloe was also a jumper...if I bent over to pat her she'd jump up and hit me in the face or just jump up on me and I'd have scratches all over me...as we've never experienced this behavior in any of our dogs before.

    I was at a loss as what to do...emails to rescue were ignored so I had to wing it. After many months Chloe stopped doing both...I don't know if it was me saying "No No" and pushing her away all the time or she just grew out of it...but I'm very glad she stopped.

    Our other rescue was a 14 mth old Rottie Opal...who was a cruelty case...this poor girl was bashed...starved and kept on a chain then dumped.
    Opal was very scared of me and sticks...balls and if I raised my hand she would hit the ground in fear. Over time she grew to trust me and was a wonderful dog...we gave her a good life and plenty of TLC till we lost her in 2013 to cancer aged 10 yrs.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

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