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Thread: Chris Connell - reward based training for IPO

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    melbourne australia


    I like to keep my options open, and then apply what seems to be called for in each individual dog. Sometimes with the advice of others prompting me. Sometimes we need the observations of a trainer, to point out what is going on, that's interupting progress. What part of the training step has been missed perhaps.
    I had to learn how to behave differently around one of my dogs, he was a so called dream of drive. He was a friggin land shark for the first year! I the novice twat that thought itd be a good idea to go to schutzhund. A Training in Drive. Vamped those drives up even higher. I created a monster! For 8 years, every day, he needs a LOT of exercise of mind and body, and the cuddles of a evening. A rather hi maintenance kinda dog that you are not going to be able to leave in a kennel environment.
    Im not so sure i did good?

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Southern NSW


    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    The science for it has been around for erm since Bob Bailey started - maybe before... He trained albatrosses to carry messages, one was so set on its trained task that even when it got injured by a sea hawk - it kept going and completed the task. There's no way you'd get that using aversives.

    What I don't understand is the persistence and insistence by club instructors on the old school aversive based methods. So even if you show up and you want the class environment for the distraction proofing, you're not welcome.

    And so many of them scold their students and take the student's dogs and punish those too. They told me my dog would be untrainable till she was over 12 months old. They were wrong. She was untrainable with their methods. Age had nothing to do with it.

    That is very wrong........well i am Lucky, i Instruct at Albury and they are all for positive reinforcement training. Anyone is welcome and we try to help everyone...even do some one on one with some (BAT) to get them used to class environments. We give them time and space. Puppies are the best to train, the earlier the better ........worst thing is to leave them
    Pets are forever

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2009


    A rather hi maintenance kinda dog that you are not going to be able to leave in a kennel environment.
    I don't know if you trained that or he was born that way or probably - a combination.

    But it's also possible to train a dog to chill out.

    I am currently turning my dog into a monster by rewarding her attention seeking behaviour (come hunt mice with me in the back yard) - she comes and barks at me and jumps on me until I do something. Sigh.

    I need to set up a crate and put her in it instead of caving because it's getting worse (therefore I have been encouraging it).

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Geelong, Vic


    Just because they're using +R in Europe - doesn't mean that it's not revolutionary here in Oz or the USA. Even you poo poo it despite the mounting pile of scientific studies that show that +R gets results and fast.
    You can back up there Hyacinth.

    I do NOT poo poo +R. As a total system, I will not work in the Purely positive, force free etc whatever banner you want to put on it. If the dog requires corrective equipment I will use it BUT there is a high element of positive reinforcement, engagement, focus work and the use of verbal markers to keep the dogs enthusiasm high. Considering I have a success of working with written off dogs and getting them to trialing levels with their owners, reactive dogs to be trustworthy and socialised dogs I think you can back up your statement.

    As for scientific studies remember they are not the WHOLE picture. They are sterile for a reason, so the maths can validate your statistics. Of course reinforcing something will work - it's the reason it's called reinforcement, to perpetuate a behaviors occurrence and even free offering. But scientific studies do not look at the entire situation a dog has to insist in - through stress, previous fears, socialisation experiences, genetics etc. I have 2 science degrees and I am actually doing a scientific study for my masters involving dogs for law enforcement applications.

    Again I repeat positive reinforcement in Schutzhund is not revolutionary. Carrying around a piece of plastic with you to immediately create a disconnection from yourself in the form of a clicker, go for gold on that one. If you want to change the world with a treat bag and a piece of plastic go for it. Schutzhund, KNPV, Ringsport etc are started with food and toys. You treat and play with those puppies from the moment their eyes open to make the world so many potentials for reward. That has always occured. But working breeders and trainers have been so shat on in the past couple of decades by major canine organisations you all bought the propaganda... yes we beat our dogs, we lock them in runs, we torture them, zap them, force them etc. That's a load of BS. That is not what these sports were ever about and those people fizzled out because a lack of reward RUINED their dogs. But once again, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. I have spent the past decade more in the working world then in the pet world.

    Don't pigeon hole me or other people you have NOT trained with because you have an agenda or preconception. There are not 2 sides to the fence. I refuse to put a label on myself because I don't believe a good trainer should sit under a label. I do what is necessary for the dog to achieve it's end goal in a motivational manner that creates a HAPPY, healthy animal that is stress free and a good canine member of society.

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