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Thread: Desperate over rescue dog's behaviour -please help!!!

  1. #11
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    doesn't have to question how to behave, she just has to. It's as though she likes the limits it puts on her.

    You have hit the nail on the head right here.
    You are learning how to be a "Good Leader".

  2. #12
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    The thing about toilet training -'/ what is really behind the simplistic "give em a treat when they go outside" advice - is that you want to forge good habits. So avoid opportunities for them to continue the bad habits - and keeping her on lead near you sounds like a good way to do this for now, and give her as much opportunity as possible to do the right thing. Which by the way she doesn't know is right. I don't believe dogs have any idea about right or wrong in matters like these. You want to get to the stage where her brain just connects wees and poos with trotting outside and doesn't even consider the option of going inside because she has no more memory of doing that.

    It does sound like she does need to go a lot. I'd try to avoid locking her inside for extended periods of time. And also in the crate unless you can take her out at regular intervals.

    And I really would look at her diet if she poos a lot. It's not a quick fix, but it can make a difference in the longer term.

  3. #13

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    Thanks again everyone. Things have calmed down a bit, although we have also come through the weekend (where we have more time to be hands on, and the dogs can spend more of the day outside]. After the frantic poo-athon we seemed to be going through, she has been pretty much fine since then. She is still doing the submission wee-ing (when we get home and take her outside, as soon as you look at her / engage her, she wees]. I've been saying to my husband "just don't look at her AT ALL until you get her outside"! My husband's attitude has improved as well, he has worked out that we haven't really taught the dog what we DO want of her, and need to do so.

    It all blew up when the other dog got the tick and had to go to the vet's for the night - perhaps this had a bigger impact on her than we imagined.

    So while things aren't perfect, things are manageable at the moment. Thank you for your advice, it really does help. It will be interesting to see if we can get this dog to be a more relaxed, calm, and well behaved dog. If we do, I'll report back on our approach!

  4. #14
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    Thank you good mum.

    I do love an update - especially a happy one.

    I think it might be slightly easier to train a dog than a human but the methods are similar...

  5. #15
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    Jan 2012
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    Hi Goodmum, great to hear things have improved.

    Regardless of whether there is improvement or not, it is always good to hear the updates, so please keep us updated either way.

  6. #16

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    Hello trying 2b a good mum,

    Being great parents to your dog is almost can be foreseen as close to holding an immense of patience and unconditional love for your own child or children, which is the reason why you and your partner had adopted the 9-month old ACD-cross and mixed-lab / german shepherd cross in the first place? From what I can gather with her background of traumatic experiences she had encountered, either from previous owner neglect and abuse and possibly negated to be abandoned on the highway (where she was found by RSPCA), has inflicted her current behaviors to be terrified, scared at any whims of probable loud noises and people yelling at her.

    By having an empathetic view in understanding this may be the case, which possibly is the cause to her anxious and submissive peeing and unwanted toilet behaviors in the crate and around the house. Simply to put this, she needs some reassurance to 'trust' and be loved by human again, or if there were any of her to experience at the start.

    There are several pointers below I can provide to help you win her trust and gradually abolish her bad toilet habits:

    1. Take note in making change of yourself & partner's behaviors:
    Not only you and your partner needs to be understanding and empathetic of possible reasons as to WHY your dog is behavioring/reacting to your screams and yelling at her when she has done wrong, eg. toilet, submissive peeing etc.. But you and your partner also needs to be AWARE of HOW you are projecting your voice and in REACTION to her many indescent 'accidents'. To help her change, she is not the focal point of the problem, as you and your partner also need to change to help her have positive change in being RESPONSIVE to positive rewards and reinforcements.

    2. Address her to new change in positive reinforcement techniques:
    Instead of yelling at her but acknowledging and pointing out that she has done something wrong, such as in a 'questionable' tone of voice and not a commanding voice and asking her: "What have you done?" or "What is this?". Will help her to know that she is somewhat in trouble and has done wrong and is not approved by the owners. In this way, leaves her less anxious or terrified in emotional reaction.
    Give her several minutes (1-2mins) to see or digest what she had done and then lead/call her outside or into another area away from the problem. Speak to her as though she is a child (I know this may sound silly, but dogs are very similar to humans and is capable of understanding us and their intelligence should not be under-estimated), telling her: "No more, ok?...and then name". Remember to still address in a questionable tone of voice. Then give her a good pat/rub on her head or body in loving/caring gestures. Your direct gentle touch will give her reassurance to bonding and loving connection with her.

    3. Aware of timely manner when she does her toilet 'accidents':
    Take note of the times during the day and night when 'accidents' occurs. Usually this can be recognised on regularity time basis. If you are not home and at work all day, you can try video recording her to know when. Before and in the event of preventing the next toilet accident, you can address her by leading/calling her outside to a particular part of the yard to start her toilet training and making sure she when she is done, appraise her with: "Good dog... or her name". Continue this and be diligent.


    4. Continual repeat of the above positive 'love & care' techniques & have patience:
    Yes, I know you probably heard it all before, being persistence in reinforcing positive rewards of behaviors needs to be constantly applied... Well it is frankly the most and best effective ways to achieving any sort of outcomes or positive ones in this matter! Just by having the understanding, time, patience and persistence will help her abolish her bad toilet ways and accidents in no-time soon. Hence, inducing uncondtional love for both owners/parents and your beloved four-legged friend.

    Good luck and hope these tips have helped!


    From: Natasha - Love Walk Paws

    Quote Originally Posted by Goodmum View Post
    Hello everyone!

    Seven months ago we adopted a 9-month old ACD-cross who we love and adore. He's basically been pretty easy to train although he loves to chew things up - we can live with that. We got him a companion dog (mixed breed, they say lab / german shepherd cross] also from the RSPCA six weeks ago. They said she's 4, our vet said 3-ish. RSPCA said she had been found on the side of the highway, terrified. We picked her pretty much on the basis that she got along with our ACD - similar size and energy levels. They love each other and play together beautifully - in that respect she is just what we wanted.

    I'm at the absolute end of my tether with her though in regards to her toilet habits including submission weeing. My husband is about to give up on her and is becoming very intolerant. A few examples - our ACD was at the vet's due to a tick bite, and as is is getting cold we thought we'd let the other sleep inside by herself. She scoffed a loaf of heavy sourdough off the kitchen bench (in itself kind of cute] and consequently my husband arrived home yesterday afternoon to two massive poos on the verandah area where they are left during the day. He took her outside after removing her from the verandah and she wet herself all through the house en route to the front door (I understand this is submission wee-ing]. ACD came back from vet's yesterday and we put them in the bathroom to sleep (they sleep together]. Two massive craps and wees across the bathroom floor. I spent 35 minutes cleaning that up and went to have my shower - to see her just outside the bathroom preparing to take a dump on the tiles. I caught her just as it started and my husband grabbed her to take her outside (I did yell also] and yes she then wees all over the floor. She had been outside with the other dog for over an hour before that, so no excuse for either???

    I've done the ignoring her when I get home and taking them straight outside with no fuss - the ACD does his business but she just jumps around me manically - the other day I ignored her till she sat, and then patted her, and so she starting weeing herself lying down!!!

    I've read a truckload about not yelling at them etc reinforcing the good behaviour when they do go outside etc, but zero progress it seems.

    Usually we put them in the crate on the verandah to sleep. On Sunday morning, when the other dog was at the vets, she had done a poo in the crate. She's done that before with him in there as well (I'm assuming it was her].

    Sometimes she gets through the day on the verandah without messing, but it's hit and miss. We have no choice but to leave them there as we both work plus it's a large enough area for them to play and be safe. Even if they were outside during the day it's not really fixing the problem.

    We have tried the quiet calm talking with her, giving her lots of love, not yelling, ignoring her when getting home etc, but she does not seem to be improving. She is also very jumpy and when you arrive home she twists and turns her body madly - I'm trying to say she's not very self confident. She also sticks her head in your face if you are sitting down at the table, demanding attention. We have tried ignoring her, pushing her away, saying no etc etc. She hasn't stopped that at all.

    My husband seems to think there is no hope for her, and I have spent the morning looking at dog behaviourists etc (but not sure of the right one for us in Brisbane]. I fear my husband is contemplating the gas chamber for her. That would be devastating for all I think.

    She does has many lovely qualities - when you get her to sit she will just sit there and enjoy being stroked, very calmly. But the house is turning into her toilet and my husband is losing respect for her and say she has no respect for us (this is his theory].

    Any ideas or advice most gratefully received as I want to see her "come good". I do not want to give up on her.

    Thanks
    Trying to be a good mum!

  7. #17
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    Jan 2012
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    Melbourne VIC
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    LoveWalkPaws,

    firstly, welcome to the forum.

    secondly, did you read all the comments under This thread prior to commenting? It is advised that comments are read first to prevent repeating information or the thread going backwards from where it is up to.

    thirdly, your training approach is quite interesting. Have you studied dog psychology or behaviour as point 2 in your comment doesn't really fit with dog psychology and how the connect events. You can't punish a dog or get her to "know that she is somewhat in trouble" after the fact because they won't make the connection. They will see "human returning to the house, bringing me to a spot, using a questionable tone that either means something negative or positive and then walking away" which is more likely for them to connect the tone to the recall rather than the "accident". This is obviously my opinion based on my education, knowledge and experience in the dog training industry. If you can elaborate your point referencing it to your knowledge/education on dog psychology to allow me to see it the way you do, that would be good.

  8. #18
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    There is an internet slang for what Natasha Love Walk Paws has posted.

    TL;DNR

    (Too long; Did Not Read). Which is what most people are going to do to that wall of poorly arranged words.

    The bits I did read I did not agree with and I do agree with The Pawfectionist - most of what you covered has already been said in a way that is easier for most people to understand.

    Keep your answers simple, as short as possible with nice blank lines between ideas. For example:
    3. Aware of timely manner when she does her toilet 'accidents':
    Take note of the times during the day and night when 'accidents' occurs. Usually this can be recognised on regularity time basis. If you are not home and at work all day, you can try video recording her to know when. Before and in the event of preventing the next toilet accident, you can address her by leading/calling her outside to a particular part of the yard to start her toilet training and making sure she when she is done, appraise her with: "Good dog... or her name". Continue this and be diligent.
    This entire thought is useless. Dogs do not pee according to a clock. The only way they know what time it is, is if you always get up, walk them or feed them at the same time.

    My dog also knows when we're almost home and it's her last chance to crap away from home. But it's not a clock based thing. She'd rather crap outside our property.

    Before and in the event of preventing the next toilet accident,
    Way too many words. You're not an 19th century lawyer who got paid by the word. Or are you using google translate to copy some online dog training text? Because most English speaking people do not use this phrasing.

    The basics are - take the dog out after waking up, after eating, after drinking, after play, before bed time - and stay out there until the job is done. Even (especially) if it is cold and wet. Praise (and treat - depending on dog).

    If the dog's nose goes down onto the floor - take the dog outside - pronto - because sniffing happens before peeing. In fact if the dog has wandered off to check out behind the sofa you could be in trouble. And if you scold during a pee - dog just learns to hide when they pee/poop so you don't see to scold.

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