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Thread: shock collar ?

  1. #11
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    The Malinois lines we have in Australia are very narrow compared to the variety of dogs available in Europe. I know the lines available in Oz and if it is Malinois x the owner needs someone experienced with working/guarding breeds now.
    http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c11/Mali_nut/K9LOGO.jpg

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekhbet View Post
    The Malinois lines we have in Australia are very narrow compared to the variety of dogs available in Europe. I know the lines available in Oz and if it is Malinois x the owner needs someone experienced with working/guarding breeds now.
    That makes sense. The Belgians (Tervs) I have had personal experience with are Danish imports. A working Malinois from the lines you talk about would not be for the inexperienced.

    I once commented on the amount of teeth and aggression that an American mal was applying to sheep during a video of its instinct test and got roundly told off.

    The Ridgebacks I have know have been placid dogs that seem to want to be in your personal space the whole time.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 03-03-2014 at 05:37 PM.

  3. #13
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    Hi oldtelefart

    I'd be tempted to put the shock collar on the untrainable humans - there's likely to be less damaging fallout than if you put it on the dog.

    In this case - I'd pay attention to what Nekhbet and Kalacreek say. You really need to control the dog's environment to prevent opportunities to nip until it can act calm around your exciting family. I would use two leads - a short one and a long one - both with knots in. I'd secure the dog with the long line - and have exciting people running round flapping like they do that has been getting them bitten - at enough distance that the dog is still paying attention to you and reward any calm behaviour. And with praise and pats not food. I used food with my dog to try to get her to be more calm around the lawnmower man - and was a massive fail. She would act naughty then calm to get the food. When I switched to praise and pats, I got much better calm out of her and much less trying to eat the lawnmower man.

    I'd make sure the dog has no opportunity to interact with the exciting members of your family when you're not around to supervise. That might mean a crate or a dog run for the dog.

    Every time they get bit - I'd use that as evidence of them not knowing it all. And one of the main ways I train my dog - who likes to nip me if I get lost on the agility course... is I'm gentle with her, she's gentle with me. If she nips - I stop - which is the opposite of what she wants me to do - which is run. She doesn't nip again but sometimes I put her on lead anyway - because nipping when I'm running is forbidden and she needs a bit of time to calm down.

    Part of the training - involves getting the dog to practice self control with increasing levels of distraction or excitement. Ie start with the dog in a drop stay in an easy environment and then start adding exciting distractions... if the dog gets up - stop the distraction - put the dog back, start again with the distraction slightly further away - ie you want to find out where the dog's threshold is and work at the edge of that both easier and harder but close to the edge. That way you can increase the threshold of the dog's self control.

    I'd also play some give-geddit games with the dog in an easy environment to teach letting go on command, and grabbing on command. And maybe include a bit of practice where you teach the dog it's not ok to grab you ever. Eg tug game mistakes are good but with that size dog - I'd be wearing welding gloves.

    Best way to use a shock collar.

  4. #14

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    Thanks to all for the input.
    I'm gentle with her, but firm.
    We have the ball game, she brings the ball and hands it over, is rewarded with vocal praise and a cuddle.
    If she gets mouthy, I bring out a toy and we have a bit of tug o'war.
    Like all my dogs, I'm conditioning her to learn that it's OK to take my hand in her mouth, GENTLY. A sign of trust, and a dog's mouth is their main connection.

    As noted, the problem is mainly the other humans in the pack. This puppy is smart, I'm confident she'll come good.

  5. #15
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    I have a dog who I discovered regarded me trying to grab her (she jumped up at people in a dangerous manner as a teenager) as me joining in with her. At home it is good to let the dog drag a short lead, so you can pull them back from whatever they shouldn't be doing calmly and immediately.

    Is the pup allowed inside?

  6. #16
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    If she gets mouthy, I bring out a toy and we have a bit of tug o'war.
    Does she get mouthy to get you to play tug? That's what I'd be worried about here.

    I can forgive my dog for missing the tug and getting me - if it's dark - my fault - never play tug in the dark. But no matter the reason - it's the end of the game - not the start of a new one if I get chomped.

    You might need to make this rule for if anyone else gets chomped too. Ie if your dog accidentally loses the plot and chomps someone - you put the dog on lead, and into a stay or a crate until she's calm again... ie chomping means the end of the game or excitement or fun or opportunity to get excited and lose the plot.

  7. #17
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    I sort of view the nipping when on the run, as part of the herding behaviours. Both dogs have high prey drive in your mix.

    Im confused as i know a Belgian shepherd to be a black GSD looking thing, with slight difference in facial bone structure, and ears, but only slight. And is a herding breed. Generally mistaken for a black GSD by strangers to the breed.
    Whereas the Malinois is a sable skinny looking, very short haired looking GSD and a fair bit smaller to boot. With more chiseled facial features.
    ie. Protection/gaurd dog, not a herding breed. 2 entirely different breeds. Have i got this wrong?

    So if this herding behaviour (nipping at ankles/legs) is unwanted. I would teach control using first couple of lessons in Treiball. (a game to play with herding dogs, where they herd inflated yoga exercise balls, instead of sheep, using clicker training to get a OFF button). This exercise teaches the dog not to bite. But to wait and or nudge instead. This is how i got my GSD to stop herding people, by nipping at ankles, or flappy hands whilst on the run. He simply learnt to nudge or to wait to nudge.

    Stim collars: i like this training method, others here dont. However, you do need to remove the reinforcer, just like you have to with food reward training. You dont keep stimming the dog forever, then you overcome the issue of dog learning to behave only if stim collar is on. Or dog only working if you have food in your pocket. Same difference. But for aggressively reacting dogs, increases likelihood of being bitten, not decreases it. So id be wary for using it for this purpose.

    My question is this. Why doesnt your dog come off the prey when you tell it to?
    The answer is usually this: you dont yet have control over your dog, and more obedience/relationship work is required. For ever, till it drops down dead from old age. Mine is 7yrs and in full peak drive, i struggle to call him off the chase. He's about 70% reliable to recall from full chase hunt, to recall on command. That took 7 yrs to get this far. I am a pet dog owner, not a pro trainer.

    You may have more skills than i and can do it faster. Or have better access to decent trainers than i had back then. I used Steve from K9Pro training in drive, worked for me, more than the dog, it gave me a shared language to train with.
    Personally i do love a challenge, the pushy dog, the clever smart out think me dog. For others this is a sure return to pound dog. Each to their own.

  8. #18

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    Hi 'oldtelefart' and to the forum ! Hope you enjoy being a member here !

    Found these 2 training places in Proserpine – which I know is only about ½ hours drive from Airlie Beach:

    Yellow Pages� | Dog Training in AIRLIE BEACH REGION, QLD

    https://www.facebook.com/whitsundaydogobedience


    There are heaps of threads on here with regard to pups biting:

    http://www.dogforum.com.au/search.php?searchid=920666

    Have a look at Kikopup’s videos – she covers just about everything you could come across:

    How to train your puppy not to bite - YouTube

    Some more links for you:

    Free downloads | Dog Star Daily

    http://www.dogforum.com.au/puppy-dis...-calendar.html

    Knowledge Base | Steve Courtney Dog Training

    http://dogmantics.com/category/freereading/english/

    The above should give you heaps of information to help you.

    As far as all the ‘ladies’ in your life – are they willing to help you train the pup ? Get them involved and see what happens ! With all you armed with high value treats in treat pouches - who knows what you all can achieve !
    Good Luck ! smiley-eatdrink004.gif

  9. #19
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    The Belgian Shepherd is very sensitive and inttelligent
    The Rhodesian is a peaceful and sporting dog
    The electric collar was dead and is the cause of epilepsy.

    The first reflex ignore the dog, to be perfectly still, hands in pockets,
    Mercher very slowly, do not cry, do not hit

    Positive education is more known.
    Your ways are old and violent.
    it's a baby

    Find a teacher in positive ways

    I have 16 dogs, mastiff, american staff, cross shepherd malinois .... never cries, blows

    Isolate the kennel if patience leaves you

    Sorry my english is very bad

    Marie: behaviorist

  10. #20
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    May 2012
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    belgium
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    A good book
    In defence of the dog P Bradshaw



    Revue de presse
    The most fantastic book ... required reading for dog lovers everywhere ... his style is tolerant, clear and benign and he is interested only in what science can support. His book is a revelation - a major rethink about the way we understand our dogs ... he makes one feel fantastically upbeat about being a dog owner ... there is no doubt about it - Professor John Bradshaw is a dog's best friend (Kate Kellaway Observer )

    Every dog lover, dog owner or prospective dog buyer should read this book. It will change how you feel about dogs and, likely enough, how you treat them, too...Sparkles with explanations of canine behaviour (James McConnachie Sunday Times )

    Essential reading for anyone who wants to understand the complicated psychology behind the growl, the rising hackles and the wagging tail (Roy Hattersley Daily Telegraph )

    Scholarly yet passionate ... nothing less than a manifesto for a new understanding of our canine friends ... fascinating (Chris Cox Guardian )

    [A] wonderful, reassuring, and encouraging book ... distinguishes canine science from canine folklore (Jonathan Mirsky Literary Review )

    Authoritative, wise and, in its sharp appreciation of the cost of dogs of living with us, rather moving (Robert Hanks Independent )

    A lovely and clear-headed book on all things dog-emotion, mind, and breed. John Bradshaw's authority and experience are matched by the thoughtfulness and humanity of his writing. Read this before you bring a dog into your life. (Alexandra Horowitz author of 'Inside of a Dog' )

    An alternative to conventional, dominance-based approaches to understanding dogs (Cesar Millan's methods, for example) in an informative...guide to how canine biology and psychology determine behavior.... Bradshaw's book is useful to those looking to further their understanding of dog behavior and clarify common misconceptions (Publisher's Weekly )

    A well-grounded overview of the Canis family's evolutionary journey...this is what makes the book so appealing. He does more than simply lay out interesting theories; he uses science to advocate for a better life for companion dogs. (The Bark )

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