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Thread: doggy obediance

  1. #1

    Post doggy obediance

    those weekly lessons in a group, who takes them and how important do you think they are? my pup has reached the age where a decision must be made whether or not to neuter, it might make for a more well behaved dog but does anyone else think it's cruel? thank you

  2. #2

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    It's cruel not to desex if you're not a registered breeder

  3. #3
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    I've never done the group lessons, but if I could turn back time, I would've done them with my first dog. Only, you need to make sure the club you use uses methods that you are comfortable with. Trainers that are flexible with their methods are best. The RSPCA trainers are usually pretty good, but their lessons are a bit pricey here compared to the local dog clubs.

    Agree with MMJ on desexing. I know there are members who don't desex their dogs despite not wanting to breed and they seem to manage ok. But I don't see why you would take the risk. I definitely have known cases where not desexing a male dog will result in them being way more determined to try escape all the time. Undesexed dogs are also overrepresented in the bite statistics, BUT because more irresponsible owners are more likely to not desex their dogs simply because they cannot be bothered that doesn't prove a direct link between balls and biting.

    It is mostly male owners who think neutering is cruel! The dog really, really won't know what he is missing after recovering from the surgery.

  4. #4
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    In terms of obedience classes, I took Koda for a while when he was 4 months old-ish. However I wasn't expecting him to get issues in the future, and when he became really difficult to handle (over excited) at the classes i just sort of gave up and left. If i could wind back time and choose to stay i would do so in a heartbeat. It would have been a great socialisation opportunity before he got his aggression issues, and with the guidance of the trainers for all i know i may have had a different dog than i do now.

    Regarding desexing, i agree with the above posts, the dog doesn't know whats happened and a desexed dog is less likely to run away to try to find females in heat. As well as the fact that he can't accidentally bring more puppies into the world. Koda was desexed at 11 months old, not long after he first started to show signs of aggression towards other dogs.

  5. #5
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    Group lessons: I took mine and I think it's really beneficial for you and your dog. It's great for socialising them in a controlled environment, and gives you a good framework in which to teach obedience in the future. It is good to take them while they are young too, and in their formative weeks because they will retain this learning experience for life.

    Desexing: Definitely. It is the responsible thing to do. It doesn't take much for a dog to be impregnated, and there is already an overpopulation of dogs in Australia, many of whom are being euthanised because pounds and shelters cannot handle this many. It also helps with dominance/aggression issues down the track and removes the threat of certain cancers. The operation is a very straightforward one too.

  6. #6
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    googles

    is your puppy six months old already - wow.

    No, your nuts are not connected to your dog's nuts and it's not cruel to get your dog desexed if you want to limit the possibility of accidental litters out there. You can get your dog to keep them but that can require some extra effort on your part to make sure he never has the opportunity to get into trouble.

    Some people say it makes a huge difference to behaviour and some don't. I just find it easier - but I have mostly lived with female dogs. I did live with one undesexed male and he was very well behaved. He never figured out what his nuts were for except licking. But they did get him into trouble later when he got the doggy equivalent of prostate cancer.

    I did puppy class with my dog before she was 4 months old and it was very important.

    Group classes at dog club - in the end I met some people who knew how to train properly but it was not the instructors I encountered after she graduated from puppy class. So you have to pick and choose.

    I would avoid classes where they insist you put a slip chain (aka choke chain) on your dog and yank it to get it to heel. I would look for classes that use rewards (and not always treats) to re-inforce the heel position. Or at least - if you see the ones using the choke chains - reward their puppies the second they're back in heel position. Praise like mad. But if you're not seeing that insistence from the instructors - find somewhere else.

    My dog did not like going for walks anywhere as long as I kept trying to use the choke chain. I learnt new methods when she was about 12 months old from the people who do agility. Such a relief. If you can find an agility based club - that might work. Most are way ahead of the old schoolers in their training methods. But you should be able to tell after observing a class or two.

    The advantage of classes is the distraction training you get. Ie you have a large number of dogs around that you can teach your dog it's good to ignore unless given permission to play.

  7. #7
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    It's cruel not to desex if you're not a registered breeder
    Rubbish. No proof at all of that and in fact hormones contribute to physical maturation.

    those weekly lessons in a group, who takes them and how important do you think they are? my pup has reached the age where a decision must be made whether or not to neuter, it might make for a more well behaved dog but does anyone else think it's cruel? thank you
    If you don't want to, don't. It won't make for a more well behaved dog, proper training will do that. I have an entire male and two entire bitches and I'm not dealing with manic problems in the least. In fact my male is so chilled out even when the girls are in heat you would think he's slightly narcoleptic :P Majority of y business is desexed dogs, and they can be more then a handful. genetics and environment make the dog, not testicles and uteri.
    http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c11/Mali_nut/K9LOGO.jpg

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekhbet View Post
    Rubbish. No proof at all of that and in fact hormones contribute to physical maturation.



    If you don't want to, don't. It won't make for a more well behaved dog, proper training will do that. I have an entire male and two entire bitches and I'm not dealing with manic problems in the least. In fact my male is so chilled out even when the girls are in heat you would think he's slightly narcoleptic :P Majority of y business is desexed dogs, and they can be more then a handful. genetics and environment make the dog, not testicles and uteri.
    I'd suggest you're a special case Nekhbet, ordinary every day dog owners are generally not up to the task of keeping an entire dog/bitch from breeding. Also, the potential for a dog to get out of their backyard or other dogs to get in is pretty high for most peoples backyards.

    I know what you're saying and of course you're right, but I don't think ordinary every dog owners are generally up to the task

  9. #9
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    I'd suggest you're a special case Nekhbet, ordinary every day dog owners are generally not up to the task of keeping an entire dog/bitch from breeding. Also, the potential for a dog to get out of their backyard or other dogs to get in is pretty high for most peoples backyards.
    You do know desexing is a quite recent push and before everyone had *gasp* entire dogs. Don't make entire dogs out to be the demons they are not. It's a natural part of the animal, not something we are adding to make them crazy. I have novice clients with entire dogs and they actually have better behaved dogs in general then the desexed ones.

    It's easy to stop entire dogs from breeding ... put up a fence and don't put a bitch in heat out on the street corner. Vets like to scare monger, most of them have simply read a text book and have no practical experience. My own vet is not a desexing pusher for anyone, as long as the dog is happy, healthy and well trained what is it his business to berate people over an ELECTIVE surgery.
    http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c11/Mali_nut/K9LOGO.jpg

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekhbet View Post
    You do know desexing is a quite recent push and before everyone had *gasp* entire dogs. Don't make entire dogs out to be the demons they are not. It's a natural part of the animal, not something we are adding to make them crazy.
    Ah, the good old days when no one batted an eye lid when people had accidental litters of pups or kittens, you mean? Because that's what I remember from those days. It was also the time when no one called the rangers because a dog wandered the neighborhood every day and some chicken wire was a perfect excuse for a fence.

    Sorry about the poor sarcasm, but I think it is a bad idea to NOT support the attitude that desexing should be the norm. Because that way it is more likely that the more irresponsible (and sometimes simply intellectually challenged) dog owners will follow suit and prevent accidental litters. They are the reason why we have mandatory desexing laws here. And if they would at all enforce them, they are a great idea. (But they don't, so they're useless)

    I have no problem with entire dogs if the owner is totally aware of their responsibilities and feels capable of ruling out mistakes. But I agree with MMJ that you are an exception rather than the norm. And I commend you and other owners like you for that, but please don't project your skills onto the average owner. Same with your clients. The fact that they are your clients puts their commitment already way above that of the average owner.

    Personally, I would not take the risk myself, no matter how easy you make it sound. I've had a dog break through a wooden gate twice. I've had latches on gates break and only realised the problem after the dogs got out. I've had small dogs crawl through tiny gaps under fences the I had never even noticed. I think I'm a fairly responsible owner compared to the average, but I do not feel equipped to ensure 0% error in that regard.

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