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Thread: Trick training resource?

  1. #1
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    Default Trick training resource?

    Can anyone recommend a good resource for trick training? We have a 101 Dog Tricks book which is ok but they use luring only. Which works ok for some stuff, but I find it very limited for other stuff. Because if the suggested luring move doesn't work on your dog, you're stuck.

    So I'd rather use more shaping or a combination of the 2.

    I know it should be intuitive, but I'm really not very good at trick training and it's me who needs to learn more than my dog. I also get stuck for ideas sometimes or can't figure out the steps needed to teach a routine. More often than not Banjo ends up offering me random behaviours and eventually barks at me because I'm too slow with my cues or rewards!

    I prefer book form for something like this, but if its online I can always print it out. Videos are ok too as I love watching them but I just don't retain the information from them as well.

  2. #2

  3. #3
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    I love Kikopup, but haven't browsed her trick videos for a while. I suppose I should just start there.

  4. #4
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    best think i found is clicker training.
    teaching the dog that click means treat....
    when they start thinking and start offering all types of things it really shows you how inteligent they really are and proves they will think hard and try there best find something to impress you for the click

  5. #5
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    She was trained with clicker training and I still use it for trick training. But I'm just not really great with finishing something we started through shaping, I think. So something that breaks up the steps would be helpful. But I'll watch some kikopup today for inspiration.

  6. #6
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    Idea List for Shaping | Susan Garrett's Dog Training Blog

    There's a list of things to try to shape here.

    Books

    Shaping success by Susan Garrett has some very specific instructions and trouble shooting info.
    Most of the "tricks" are for agility but some of them would be good in any situation eg collar grab, crate games, loose lead walking, recall, etc.

    If you get targeting sorted - you can use that to guide your dog to anywhere you want. It's pretty close to luring but not quite - because the treat is not directly involved and if you have it right - seeking the target (and nose tapping it or foot tapping it or whatever you're working on right now) becomes the reward.

    There's some good stuff on target finding here.
    Home
    That's Gary Wilkes site. - on the menu on the left about half way down there is a dog nose tapping a yellow ball and under that is some clicker training articles.

    Key things for clicker training
    * Yes - you can use a word instead of a click for actions of motion or duration that don't require a precise moment in time to be "marked"

    * Duration - it often helps not to use the clicker or yes and just deliver the treat directly when the dog is doing what you want, often the dog will view the click as "end of exercise" and come looking for the treat. If you reward this - the dog may assume that all the behaviour that comes between the click and the reward is part of the "trick" which you may not want (eg sit stays).

    * Average or better - once you have the behaviour established - only reward average or better performance. Don't be tempted to reward crap just cos it's cute or it gets you what you want (luring heel position).

    * Position - reward in position - try to deliver the reward so the dog is in the position you want when they get it eg if you're training jumping - you want to reward on the landing side of the jump, in the place where you want the dog to be. You can also use the position to place the reward so the dog has to move further into the trick or position you want - eg circling pool noodle uprights - reward so the dog is a little more around the noodle. This trick is handy for teaching tight turns and send outs. remember anything between "yes" and the reward - becomes part of the trick. So if the reward is used to lure a slightly better position - that's ok.

    * value - the reward has to be something that the dog will work for in that environment. Ideally tug will increase excitement and food will calm a dog down. Unless it's roast chicken at the beach - in which case you might get over excited / over aroused / over the top or "TAR" - too aroused (to) respond = a dog that is too excited (happy or fearful or aggressive etc), to respond to any of your signals. you don't want that. And you need to manage the environment and the reward to keep the dog interested / aroused but not TAR.

    * environment - set the training space up to maximise dog's chance of success. once success is reliable (4 out of 5 attempts) - change one thing about the environment for the next session and train again ie up the difficulty. use boxes, planks, props - to help your dog get into the position you want.

    * proofing - add distractions - one thing at a time - to see if your dog can still do the trick.

    * record keeping - make video or written records of how your dog does, scientists compare rewards to non reward attempts to see how progress is. Watching back video can help you see how what you're doing could be changed - timing or position or reward to get better results. Write a plan for what you want to do next time.

    * non reward marker - like the opposite of a click or a yes... with some behaviours you might want to interupt the attempt and get the dog to start over - eg finding things or weave poles. So you can use a non reward marker like "oops". Unfortunately I often say "Oops" when I stuffed up but I guess that still helps the dog know that what we're doing is not what is wanted. I also say stuff like "I don't think so", "what are you doing?" or "try again" or "you get nothing for that"... if these are used consistently they can be used as behaviour interuppters for any behaviour you want to stop the dog doing - eg counter surfing. I have also been known to say "don't even think about it" when the dog looks in the wrong direction.

    Actually - just get "shaping success" by susan garrett...

    She also runs an online shaping course from time to time - if you like her facebook page (and then go find it about once a week) or sign up to her mailing list on her blog (see the idea list) - you will notice when new online courses are starting.

    And if you get on Cathy Slot's email list at Agility Click - you will get notified when Susan or Lynda Orton Hill (they work together), are coming to oz for seminars.
    Agility Click
    you can buy the book there too.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 01-11-2014 at 03:10 PM.

  7. #7
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    Is there anything in particular you are trying to teach or just after ideas?

    If there is something in particular, please let us know and we can help you with how to train it

  8. #8
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    I'm teaching crawl, spin, roll over and walk backwards right now. Just basics, but I'm simply not good at it. I can easily teach things that only involve one step, but anything that requires some form of shaping to perfect, we don't make any progress on. Or even spin. She's known how to do that with luring for ages but still doesn't do it if I don't guide her.

    So today it was way too hot to do tricks and I decided I'd try get her into the clamshell pool. She doesn't like it but it took me no time at all to get her to put one paw in the water on cue. And that's always where I become unstuck. I don't know how to make the step from rewarding for one paw in pool to only rewarding for 2 paws in pool. Even if the next step is a behaviour that she is likely to offer accidentally. It is possible that I am just way too much of a softie and don't dare to challenge her... But I cannot make that transition from first to next step so we are stuck at that first level.

  9. #9
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    spin, roll over and walk backwards
    Feels like lumping...

    I got roll over by luring the dog to look over her shoulder until she rolled... but if I'd known anything about clicker training when she was a puppy I probably could have gotten a forwards somersault... she did lots of those.

    This might also be helpful - absolute dogs describing how to use reinforcement for best results.
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

  10. #10
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    She will do the roll over with luring and sometimes without now but doesn't roll all the way so it's more like play dead. I can guide her to do it and a couple of times she got back to lying on her tummy with just a little but of a push. But then I don't know if I should just stop giving treats for the half roll immediately and hope she figures out what it is I want her to do instead?

    She really does get frustrated with me. She will even try to snatch treats out of my hand, something she would never do in any other situation and she'll bark at me sometimes. I had to stop our last session because of it.

    I haven't taken the time to check out any of those resources. But I will in the hope that my brain will just finally get it. Not in this heat though... Brain is fried.

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