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Thread: Good recall suddenly turned bad

  1. #11
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    You even the big, tough prison, police and army guys don't smack their dogs and those dogs work very, very hard for their handlers. I spent a week at a law enforcement seminar and not once did those dogs need a 'smack' from the handler to listen to them. These weren't soft dogs either.

  2. #12
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    Striker sometimes does my head in.

    Loads of enthusiasm

    But
    Some really unfortunate ideas on what good dog management is by today's standards (the methods backed by years of scientific study and animal training).

    You can't get a dolphin in the open ocean to do what you want by smacking it. But a dolphin in the open ocean can be trained...

    RileyJ - there are plenty of people out there who still think violence is a good way to solve problems. From our local night clubs to Afghanistan...
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 07-10-2013 at 12:09 PM.

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  4. #14
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    Some really unfortunate ideas on what good dog management is by today's standards (the methods backed by years of scientific study and animal training).

    You can't get a dolphin in the open ocean to do what you want by smacking it. But a dolphin in the open ocean can be trained...
    All well and good but if the Dolphin does not want to comply you can't make it - they can get away with it, dogs cannot... they usually end up put to sleep or hit by a car. The science done with wild/zoo animals cannot necessarily be transferred onto pet dogs 100%.

  5. #15
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    All well and good but if the Dolphin does not want to comply you can't make it
    That was my point. Bob Bailey didn't just quit and get a new dolphin each time one decided to nick off.

    He managed the training so they never wanted to nick off. And there is this weird thing that happens when you work for your food like that - suddenly the work itself becomes really exciting.

  6. #16
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    Here's my tuppence worth.
    There are many folks, who hold the belief that physical pain, albeit mild, is a tool for training. So we see the yank n crank check chainers, the swat the dogs nose brigade etc.
    I too used these methods. Shit ive even competed with these methods in the 80's. But i now know better.
    Or do i?

    My husband belongs to the smack a puppys nose when it bites you camp.
    I am not.
    the pups have all stopped biting him, way before they stopped biting me.

  7. #17
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    That was my point. Bob Bailey didn't just quit and get a new dolphin each time one decided to nick off.
    All well and good but there's no rangers policing dolphin behaviors in off leash parks. Dog injures a dog or rushes a human it can have a menacing dog order put on it, attacks - dangerous dog or dead. Dogs live in society we dont have the luxury of allowing animals to make a lot of mistakes in a lot of instances.

  8. #18
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    Yeah but if I was as good at dog training as Bob was good at Dolphin (or chicken) training - my dog wouldn't make mistakes.

  9. #19
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    Before Striker's last thread, I was going to suggest that they need to take it a step back and take the recall training to an easier level again. Which means only call the dog when there are no distractions and you are totally sure he will come. Than reward liberally, release, repeat.

    The things that stood out for me when reading that first post were:
    You should never call your dog more than once (though I do twice just in case they really didn't hear me) and should avoid calling when there is a big chance they won't come. If your dog doesn't come or you decide not to call them, calmly walk over to them and clip them on the lead. Calm is the operative word here. If you get worked up about it, the dog will run away from you.
    Dogs do understand context. How your brother treats the dog should not have too much of an effect on your relationship with your dog, as long as you stay consistent.
    Two or more dogs almost always behave differently than when they're the only dog. You start of in a fairly high distraction environment, so need to keep that in mind when assessing distraction levels for recall training.

  10. #20
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    I have nothing further to add about the recall, but I might just quickly express my opinion of smacking. You can choose to accept it or you can ignore it - its your choice.

    For starters, smacking is physically abusing a dog. Its like hitting one of your friends if they do something you don't like - who does that? Think of it this way: do you want your dog to obey you out of fear or out of love? This is a question I was faced with before I started training. Smacking or hitting your dog will do nothing but scare him or, heaven forbid, make him angry. If you use smacking a reinforcement, your dog will begin to obey you out of fear of being hit - he will be scared and uncertain when he does something for you, worried at whether its right or wrong. Why not use alternative methods which will result in him obeying you out of love and respect, and the willingness to do what pleases you. Ask yourself: which, as a dog owner, is more rewarding? If you were him, what would you want you to do?
    "Dogs are better than human beings because they know – but do not tell."

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