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Thread: incessant whining to get what he wants...

  1. #1

    Default incessant whining to get what he wants...

    We have a 9"ish" year old beagle (we have had him for 4 years via rescue).

    We have attended 2 rounds of basic dog club lessons and generally he's a good dog.
    I keep my expectations reasonable for a beagle. Hes a scent hound and he is kept on lead. He is bomb proof with all children and a good natured fellow.

    BUT he is food crazy.
    Repeatidly broken multiple fencing options to meet and great the chooks (to eat their food and eggs- never hurt them, but visited every hour at least), so I finally gave the chooks away.
    He has destroyed 3 worm farms and 2 composts- so I gave them up also.
    He has destroyed 2 huge raised veggie beds (eating all the produce).
    He has NO shame and counter surfs non stop, raids the pantry none stop, eats lunchboxes out of childrens bags, eaten through parcels left at the door by post man etc.

    We have developed multiple strategies to deal with this- the best is that he is contained by lead in his basket in our large open plan lounge/dining room, and lives outside at night and while we are not home. NEVER fed without TOT.

    New over the last 6 weeks is incessant whining. Even if he was fed 3 min ago, he will be whining and begging for food. He gets fed after 5pm each evening- he has been whining at me since 11am today. I have had him vet checked. He is walked 3 to7km EVERY day.
    I am pretty confident that the whining is begging to be fed.
    Its driving me completely batty. I have shouted and kicked him out of the house (not proud of myself at all). i need to stop this whine!!

    He stops for 30 sec to 1 min when I tell him "enough!", but starts again after this time.

    Please- any thoughts at all!!!!????

    He can get food out of a kong in 30 sec flat.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
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    Ok - telling him "enough" is attention and rewarding to him. So he whines more.

    If you're going to cave - do it in the first 10 seconds or not at all.

    So my evil hound is not that persistant because she knows this rule.

    I think if I had your evil hound - he'd be going somewhere he didn't get any attention at all until he shuts up. And then I'd let him out. I would gradually increase the amount of time he has to be quiet... I'd start with 5 seconds and then increase it. If he starts up again as I get to the door - I'd turn around and walk the other way. I might say "oops" in a neutral tone, and I might not.

    For my dog - she'd be shut in a crate... sometimes shutting her the other side of a door works.

    For your dog - maybe back on the lead in the usual spot and then go into another room and shut the door. If you have to come out - don't look at him, and don't talk to him unless he's quiet.

    Somehow you've been rewarding the whining in his mind so he does it more. Quit the shouting on your part, very quietly and calmly take him by the collar (use a lead if you have to) and put him somewhere he's not able to get your attention. Set a timer... and go check on him if he's quiet and if he is, let him in.

    Ie use TOT not only with his dinner but also your attention and the right to be in the same room as you. Google NILIF (nothing in life is free) for more details.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brisbane, Qld
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    228

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    Hyacinth said it all - stop giving him what he wants [attention]. Any attention and all attention is good in a dog's books - completely ignore him, and be persistent. Dogs hate that haha. What's TOT?

  4. #4
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    Adelaide
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    TOT is "triangle of Temptation" - a training method closely related to NILIF...

    http://www.dogforum.com.au/dog-train...emptation.html

    It's a sticky thread at the top of our training page, there may be an updated version on Steve Courtney's website in here somewhere...
    Knowledge Base | Steve Courtney Dog Training

  5. #5

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    thanks for yr wise words - I had not thought that I was rewarding him... you have shone a new light.
    He is also doing it while on the lead in his basket and I am in another room. He is doing it all day!
    Right, I am ignoring it! and rewarding quiet behaviour.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Geelong, Vic
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    871

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    The dog is old and hungry. Why are you exercising a now almost geriatricly aged animal that much, then not feeding him of course he's carrying on. Old dogs need better feeding regimes, feed him twice to three times a day, smaller meals so he's not waiting 24 hours between meals and will keep him satisfied as his stomach is not going from everything to nothing. If you're not there to feed him stuff his food in kongs really well, or scatter dry food around the back yard, really hard to find so he gets his instincts out.

    He could also have the beginning of arthritis and be in some pain which can cause incessant whining. Sudden onset whining after this long sounds like a pain to me more then a pain in the bum behavior unless you have made some reasonable change in routine.

  7. #7

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    I get you Nekhbet.
    the reason he is fed once a day is wt control. He has a very bad luxating patella with heaps of damage there. If he gets heavy he is in lots of pain.
    He is very mobile and def more comfortable when lighter. He has been fed once a day for the last 3 yrs- so its not new, although the weather is getting cooler.
    For a while we had him on meds and regular visits to dog osteopath, now hes lighter we have not needed any meds or osteo for over a year.

    I dont think hes walked that much? a hr to 2 hrs every day? Def makes life much more interesting for a scent hound. He seems to love the walks. We walk with a 7 yr old human so the pace is not fast...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne VIC
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    I was just about to write what Nehkbet wrote, haha. I agree with the feeding regime and long distance running. A dog of that age doesn't need to run that much, especially if he is developing any form of arthritis.

    I'm not sure why you think feeding once a day will help with weight management as opposed to multiple times a day. If you feed (example only) 2 cups of dry/fresh/RAW equiv. in the evening, then only feed 1 cup in the morning and one in the evening, or scatter the morning cup around the garden to promote the use of the nose (mental stimulation) to work for his food and then again in the evening or use a treat ball or just feed him in his bowl (but then that goes against NILIF, unless he works for it in some other way).

    If he has a luxating patella, why take him for such long walks? They don't need that much exercise. You can give them mental stimulation at home,especially with a scent hound.

    The colder weather will affect arthritic joints. I'd look at getting it checked.

    I also agree that you have been rewarding the whining with your attention, however this is given. Think about why he is whining (undesired behaviour) and make sure he is not getting his reward for doing so or you will be rewarding the undesired behaviour.

    As a side note to help with the food deliveries and the like, get a toy box style thing and put it at the front door/porch and have a note asking all deliveries to be placed in the box. It should have a latch of some sort that the dog will be unable to open.

    There are also some sprays out in the shops that keep dogs clear of certain areas, such as herb/veg gardens and the like.

    ETA: feeding multiple times per day can also help with hormonal balance and can sometimes help reduce behavioural problems relating to this.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetboy View Post
    I get you Nekhbet.
    the reason he is fed once a day is wt control. He has a very bad luxating patella with heaps of damage there. If he gets heavy he is in lots of pain.
    He is very mobile and def more comfortable when lighter. He has been fed once a day for the last 3 yrs- so its not new, although the weather is getting cooler.
    For a while we had him on meds and regular visits to dog osteopath, now hes lighter we have not needed any meds or osteo for over a year.

    I dont think hes walked that much? a hr to 2 hrs every day? Def makes life much more interesting for a scent hound. He seems to love the walks. We walk with a 7 yr old human so the pace is not fast...
    'sweetboy' - I think that you will find that feeding him twice a day will actually help you to control his weight more than feeding him just once a day. All you do is 1/2 what you would normally feed him at night into 2. Then if he gets snacks through the day - it is really easy then to adjust how much you then feed him at night so the total amount is not over how much he should be fed.

    Maybe try it and see how he goes.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Geelong, Vic
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    I get you Nekhbet.
    the reason he is fed once a day is wt control. He has a very bad luxating patella with heaps of damage there. If he gets heavy he is in lots of pain.
    You do control weight more with multiple meals. Just like us starvation makes the dogs body try and hold any calories it can. All my dogs are fed multiple times a day and even the old geriatrics are trim and terrific. I too have had a dog with severe leg problems, he was fed twice a day, fresh food not just dry kibble. Also when you feed just in the evening you can cut back to next to nothing and the dog will still gain weight - there is no kickstart to the metabolism in the morning/during the day then he lies on his meal and the starving body stores it. Small meals and you will find his overall body condition will be better, he wont be as hungry and if he becomes a real pain in the bum give him raw carrots in between to eat.

    If he's outside with severe luxating patellas and walked that far at once I'd be very surprised if he's not in pain. I would never walk a dog with bad joints that far at once. All your doing is wearing away the joints, give him brain exercises like I suggested - hiding the food around the backyard, make it really hard for him. Even a plastic lemonade bottle with his breakfast kibble in it and squished in the middle to make it difficult is a good start. If you can find a toy called the Tug-A-Jug get one, they're brilliant. Pet Pacific are the distributors, any pet store who orders from them can get them and they're not expensive. Get him the large size

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