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Thread: Dog Vaccines link to joint problems

  1. #1
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    Default Dog Vaccines link to joint problems

    And now to throw a complete spanner in the works.........there are now some studies that are showing that long term use of vaccination are really the cause of some of the problems we are all blaming the breeders for: a lot of the joint issues

    Vaccines, Collagen And Joint Disease | Dogs Naturally Magazine
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  2. #2
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    Interesting read, although I don't know how much weight I'd put on it as there seems to be no credentials listed or no real references. With these sorts of things I try to keep an open mind because according to the "experts" everything is causing something bad somewhere. You know, red meat causing cancer, orange juice causing liver disease and what have you. Interesting regardless.

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    i agree with silver.

    it's an interesting article, but you hit the nail on the head, everything seems to be bad in some way or cause something.
    "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion" Author Unknown

  4. #4
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    I agree, when I read it i was looking for unbiased opinions and credible references, but i did find this part very interesting ,


    >>>This bears repeating. Dr. Ronald Schultz, the leading canine immunologist, publishes a study in which every single puppy is protected within hours of the very first vaccination. Thirty years prior to this, he determined that core vaccines (including distemper) last at least seven years, and most likely for the life of the dog. So it should be pretty obvious that it only takes one distemper vaccine to protect a puppy from distemper for life. Why then does the average dog get vaccinated for distemper at 8 weeks, 12 weeks, 16 weeks, one year, four years, seven years, ten years – and if he is lucky enough to have lived through this unnecessary and dangerous onslaught – thirteen and sixteen years of age? Nine shots of the same virus that is shown to be permanently effective within hours of the very first vaccine is considered a minimal vaccine schedule by most veterinarians – many other dogs receive 15 or more shots of distemper! <<<<



    Dr. Ronald Schultz, a "leading canine immunologist" I dont think would be suggesting one distemper vaccine will last 7 years or more without some kind of viable crediable knowledge.
    And these vaccines have been around since the 50's, is there really any evidence dogs need up to 15 distemper shots in a lifetime?
    Im sure the drug companies would say yes, but we know there level of honesty and credability.

    And a link between vaccines and joint problems occurs in humans, so why not animals?

    A really good topic, and would be great it some top unbiased specialists come on board to do trials and find out the truth.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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  5. #5
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    I have actually done a lot of reading on this.i am very interested in what drugs do to both people and dogs. I am all for early puppy/baby vaccinations, but i have been dead-set against the continuous yearly vaccinations...i do have proper papers to show this. LOL...I might have to pull my computer apart and find them to post If only I was tidier and more organised.
    Pets are forever

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    I thought I'd made a comment along the lines - that I thought blaming vaccines for joint problems might be like blaming vaccines for autism (which has been disproved by specialists in Montreal and other places). Basically the change of autism was the same - whether the child was immunised or not, and it also made no difference if the vaccine had mecury or not (and that's been discontinued).

    I really don't get why some medicines and tooth fillings had mercury in them. The reasoning given to me about why it was ok - was a bit flawed from a chemistry and physics point of view.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by newfsie View Post
    I have actually done a lot of reading on this.i am very interested in what drugs do to both people and dogs. I am all for early puppy/baby vaccinations, but i have been dead-set against the continuous yearly vaccinations...i do have proper papers to show this. LOL...I might have to pull my computer apart and find them to post If only I was tidier and more organised.
    I am also very interested in the topic of vaccines, including joint problems and if they are required as per "popular and possibly outdated consensus".

    I feel the same as you Newfsie, re: continuing with vaccinations after the initial puppy ones, after reading some very expert opinions many years ago, but have never been game enough to take the plunge and not do it, due to so much information you read being funded and produced by companies and "researchers" with financial objectives.

    I did however only vaccinate my lab far less than vet reccomendations and at around 10 he contracted kennel cough which was quite distressing for him but more so for me as I felt so guilty he hadnt had a vac for 2 years, so through personal experience, the C5 which includes parainfluenza and bordatella bronchiseptica, the two causes of "kennel cough" needs to be yearly.

    But what are your thoughts on the Distemper, Hepatitis, Parvovirus after the first year and can they be given individually?

    Also I have scoured the net looking for compatable human /dog medications and found a few but not many.

    Have we a thread here of tried and true human medications suitable for dogs?
    Or might you have one somewhere lurking in your computer to post?
    Would be much appreciated.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

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    Are you meaning pain relief for humans and dogs like metacam (prescribed only and human is mobilis/feldane) and benadadryl and phernegan....Asprin is Ok too, but not regular like with humans.
    Tramadol is used for humans and dogs, again prescribed.

    If you know the dog medication.....generic name, you can find it in the Mims (pharmacopeia), which is what i do...i ask the vets to prescribe equal drugs, such as tramadol. Only $7.00 from Chemist warehouse and about $30.00 from the vet.

    I have quite a good Pharmalogical knowledge and that helps. BUT.........you have to be careful, because some human meds can kill dogs, such as Paracetamol/panadol and all its likes for an example


    Even the worming can be done cheaper if you find the same product (EXCACT) and do the maths. But you initially need some help from your vet.

    I only worm as needed post worm count.....We are putting way to many chemicals into our animals and humans.....I just go by the rate of cancer increasing..there has got to be reasons for that.

    And comparing joint problems to autism is like comparing apples to oranges...there is a anatomical physiology compared to a psychological.........Just like Ross River and some body immunological problems can cause arthritis is a better comparison.......

    They are saying it is those sort of things that are causing the changes. Lots of immuno things cause arthritis in people including rheumatoid arthritis.

    I am definitely not against baby vaccinations.....Only have to see one baby with whooping cough to realise that, but i am against the yearly vaccinations forever in dogs.....We do titers And our older dogs have not needed the vaccinations. katy our younger one did. We will again titer our dogs as we do the worm counts and see if they do need vaccinating or worming

    As to getting Kennel cough, it is a bit like us getting a very bad flue..not pleasant, but we will survive. I would however never wish Parvo/distemper/and such on a puppy, hence I still think it is important to vaccinate. Do however remeber it is the companies that tell us when and why and how often we should. Vets (not all) just follow their suggestions. they call it best practise
    Pets are forever

  9. #9
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    Yes, human meds that can also be used for dogs.

    I have trolled a few threads on other sites and google in recent months looking for alternatives to a vet visit, when my silly old cav does a 360 chasing a ball and hurts her back and $180.00 later get a pill that i have in the cupboard anyway.

    But there was very conflicting advice from the posters so come away non the wiser, and from my time in the vets, I know many of the drugs subscibed for dogs are human as well, but with MUCH smaller doses, I made a list, but lost it when my puter died, so dont have the doses as per body weight anymore either.
    The last visit he prescribed Valium 1/4 tab per 10 kg body weight and metacam in liquid form, for the back pain.

    Is benedaryl for allergies? Do you have a dose per body weight?
    Mobilis and feldene (milligram?)..back pain anti inflamatory? Any idea of dosage per 10 kg?
    Tramadol ?
    Worming, exact same product, do the math?
    I also agree we are putting way to many toxic drugs into our dogs (and paying unneccessary costs), and agree the drug companies call the shots and no doubt knowignly rake in the big bucks for unneccessary immunisations.

    The story you posted here is mirrored on many sites, yet every vet I have been to still advocates the "best paractice" vaccine procedure despite growing evidence to prove otherwise.

    If i want to just do the kennel cough after 12 months, can i ask for that as a lone seperate vaccine?
    And what are your thoughts on heartworm meds?

    He also prescribed Prednil,which i dont think is also a human med, thinking my girls head shaking may be from an allergy <<<groans, and when i looked it up on the net i found from a vet (re agility),

    Prednil is cortisone, a steroidal anti-inflammatory. It will have quite a wide variety of effects and MAY effect agility performance. It's main medicinal purpose is to reduce the effect of the immune system - either to reduce allergies or, as in your case, to reduce an auto-immune response.

    A direct side effect of this is that is makes the patient more susceptible to other infections, so if your dog gets a respiratory infection, tummy upset or similar, it is likely to have a greater effect that a dog that is not on cortisone.One of the other major effects of cortisone is involved with protein metabolism. When a dog is on cortisone, the dog is more prone to break down protein into glucose and it is then turned into fat. Dogs on cortisone tend to be fatter and have a pot belly, due to weaker stomach muscles. To compound the obesity, the dogs tend to have an increased appetite. Also, if the dog is injured, due to the reduced protein metabolism, healing is much, much slower.

    Due to effects on the kidneys, the dogs tend to drink and pee a lot more. This is just an annoying side effect.

    Being an anti-inflammatory, cortisone also reduces the pain associated with inflammation in joints - especially in arthriticky old dogs. However, it may be associated with further ongoing damage to the joint, even though the dog does not feel the effects of the worsening joints. This is why, with acute joint injuries, we tend to use non-steroidal anti-inflammatories

    Cortisone can also make a dog feel better - in some cases it can have quite a dramatic effect on the dog's mood, usually making them brighter and happier. But the occasional dog becomes lethargic and lazy. No hard and fast rules on this one.

    For auto-immune problems, the dose of prednil often has to be kept quite. There are other effects of auto-immune diseases other that the obvious external changes you see, so really, we should keep them under control, despite the potential side-effects of the pred. Just make sure you keep your dog well exercised to maintain muscle tone as the best possible, and do not let get overweight. If you can do this, she can still have a good agility career.

    Hope this helps,

    Le Hammer BVSc ( wearing my vet's hat this time)

    Quite a heavy drug to be prescribed on nothing more than a "maybe" because he coulnt pin point the real cause.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  10. #10
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    Yes it is very confusing..i ask a lot of questions at the vets and because i have a medical back ground I can unravel some of their answers and I use the trusty Mims a lot.........Katy was given a Stemetil script too a couple of weeks ago, because she was nauseous.......Again I asked for a script, because it is cheaper.

    Benadryl is good for allergic reaction..i use human doses, the problem is your dogs are very small, mine are mostly kid to adult size, so it is easy. i would have to chat to a vet if i had a small dog. I have never owned small dogs. Smallest has been kelpies
    Pets are forever

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