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Thread: Raw Food Diets for Dogs Discussion

  1. #11
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    I have discovered chloe is defiantly happier on a raw food diet, though i am working on it and I find it daunting as this is very new to us!

    She eats roo or chicken mince most nights mixed in with 75ish ml/gm of natural yoghurt... I am introducing vegies as we go but she's not a fan (though it's more she hates anything new i think) and i'll be adding some rice once shes accepting the introduction to vegies..

    My vet also discovered that she loves sausage mince, but told me to limit it as it's not exactly great for them.. So on the odd occasion she'll get that but veryyy rarely.

    She also gets chicken wings every so often (more treats then anything else) and I still have her on kibble for nutrion as i KNOW she's not getting everything she should be from her raw diet..

    I am interested to hear what extra vitamins and stuff you all put in?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jodz View Post
    I have discovered chloe is defiantly happier on a raw food diet, though i am working on it and I find it daunting as this is very new to us!

    She eats roo or chicken mince most nights mixed in with 75ish ml/gm of natural yoghurt... I am introducing vegies as we go but she's not a fan (though it's more she hates anything new i think) and i'll be adding some rice once shes accepting the introduction to vegies..

    My vet also discovered that she loves sausage mince, but told me to limit it as it's not exactly great for them.. So on the odd occasion she'll get that but veryyy rarely.

    She also gets chicken wings every so often (more treats then anything else) and I still have her on kibble for nutrion as i KNOW she's not getting everything she should be from her raw diet..

    I am interested to hear what extra vitamins and stuff you all put in?
    Hi Jodz...if you blend the vegies...they eat it easier

  3. #13
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    Hi Jodz,

    Dogs cannot digest vegetables very well when they are in larger chunks etc. Most ppl blend them in a food processor then add them to the meat portion.

    I am mainly interested in ppl who have scientific facts or have studied vegetable/fruit impact/nutrition in dogs.

    It has often been believed that dogs in the wild when killing an animal would eat the contents of the victim's stomach, along with everything else, meat bone and hide etc.

    Problem I have is that I have researched this at length, and a lot of studies are showing that they DO NOT eat the stomach contents. The stomach itself will usually always be punctured during the eating process, and the contents strewn around, but NOT EATEN.

    Anyone got any knowledge of this?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post
    Hi Jodz,

    Dogs cannot digest vegetables very well when they are in larger chunks etc. Most ppl blend them in a food processor then add them to the meat portion.

    I am mainly interested in ppl who have scientific facts or have studied vegetable/fruit impact/nutrition in dogs.

    It has often been believed that dogs in the wild when killing an animal would eat the contents of the victim's stomach, along with everything else, meat bone and hide etc.

    Problem I have is that I have researched this at length, and a lot of studies are showing that they DO NOT eat the stomach contents. The stomach itself will usually always be punctured during the eating process, and the contents strewn around, but NOT EATEN.

    Anyone got any knowledge of this?
    I have just been searching in Google on this. The myth is...they eat the stomach contents, but from what I can see..they don't! I saw some program on Foxtel in which they said...the wolves would eat the stomach content, but from what I can see...this is not true!!!

    The will eat the internal organs (high in Iron)...maybe even the stomack itself, but not the contents.

    I found this:

    Dogs are very adaptable, but just because they can survive on an omnivorous diet does not mean they are omnivores.
    Your dog is a true carnivore, and should be fed accordingly.
    Carnivores are at the top of the food chain, even above human beings, in the richness and quality of their dietary requirements.
    You only have to look into your dog's mouth to see that their teeth are designed for grabbing and tearing. Their molars (grinding teeth) are not suitable for grinding vegetation. Their molars are pointed and situated in a scissors bite (along with the rest of their teeth) that powerfully disposes of meat, bone, and hide, but is useless for vegetation.
    Dogs (and cats) are equipped with powerful jaw and neck muscles that help them pull down prey and chew meat, bone, and hide. Their jaws hinge open widely, allowing them to gulp large chunks of meat and bone. Their skulls are heavy, and are shaped to prevent lateral movement of the lower jaw when captured prey struggles (the mandibular fossa is deep and C-shaped); this shape permits only an up-and-down crushing motion, whereas herbivores and omnivores have flatter mandibular fossa that allows for the lateral motion necessary to grind plant matter (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecolog,. McGraw-Hill. pgs 258-259).
    Dogs and cats have the internal anatomy and physiology of a carnivore. They have a highly elastic stomach designed to hold large quantities of meat, bone, organs, and hide. Their stomachs are simple, with an undeveloped caecum (Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology . McGraw-Hill. pg 260). They have a relatively short foregut and a short, smooth, unsacculated colon. This means food passes through quickly. Vegetable and plant matter, however, needs time to sit and ferment. This equates to longer, sacculated colons, larger and longer small intestines, and occasionally the presence of a caecum. Dogs have none of these, but have the shorter foregut and hindgut consistent with carnivorous animals. This explains why plant matter comes out the same way it goes in; there is no time for it to be broken down and digested (among other things). People know this; this is why they tell you that vegetables and grains have to be pre-processed for your dog to get anything out of them. But even then, feeding vegetables and grains to a carnivorous animal is a questionable practice.
    Dogs do not normally produce the necessary enzymes in their saliva (amylase, for example) to start the break-down of carbohydrates and starches; amylase in saliva is something omnivorous and herbivorous animals possess, but not carnivorous animals. This places the burden entirely on the pancreas, forcing it to produce large amounts of amylase to deal with the starch, cellulose, and carbohydrates in plant matter. Thus, feeding dogs as though they were omnivores, taxes the pancreas and places extra strain on it, as it must work harder for the dog to digest the starchy, carbohydrate-filled food instead of just producing normal amounts of the enzymes needed to digest proteins and fats (which, when fed raw, begin to "self-digest" when the cells are crushed through chewing and tearing and their enzymes are released).
    Nor do dogs have the kind of friendly bacteria that break down cellulose and starch for them. As a result, most of the nutrients contained in plant matter—even preprocessed plant matter—are unavailable to dogs.
    It is often wrongly conveyed that your best friend is an omnivore. The main “myth” used to support this is “wolves eat the stomach contents of their pray” inferring that the stomach contents are usually vegetable/plant matter, so the wolf must be an omnivore.......
    WRONG! Wolves DO NOT eat the stomach contents of their pray. This “myth” is repeated over and over as false evidence that wolves, and therefore dogs, are omnivores. It is not supported by the evidence available to us, and is therefore false!
    Wolves eat the actual stomach, not the contents. The only times a wolf would eat stomach contents would be:

    • if the prey were too small to tear the stomach apart and empty the contents
    • if food was in short supply


    The wolf has survived by being an adaptable creature. He will survive by eating what can be found in times of shortage. This does not mean that he is an omnivore, it simply means that he is a survivor. Just like if you were hungry and the only food available was not your “normal” diet, it wouldn't take too long before you would eat what was available in order to survive. This might not be the best for your health, but it would certainly help you survive.

  5. #15
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    Yeah Cleas, seen that. I've also come across a lot of results from studies done with cats as well, who do the same thing. Puncture the stomach while ripping their prey apart, and even rolling in the stomach content, but never eating it!

    Scientists have documented dogs who will sometimes eat the inside lining of flesh from the stomach, I agree, but never the contents.

    I guess that's why i started this thread - to see if anyone out there could give me scientific proof of what nutrition grains/veges/fruit are for a dog - because I am one of those that do not in my wildest dreams agree a dog's anatomy is devloped to be an omnivore in any way!

    Thanks for your reply - been waiting for ya. Lol.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post
    Yeah Cleas, seen that. I've also come across a lot of results from studies done with cats as well, who do the same thing. Puncture the stomach while ripping their prey apart, and even rolling in the stomach content, but never eating it!

    Scientists have documented dogs who will sometimes eat the inside lining of flesh from the stomach, I agree, but never the contents.

    I guess that's why i started this thread - to see if anyone out there could give me scientific proof of what nutrition grains/veges/fruit are for a dog - because I am one of those that do not in my wildest dreams agree a dog's anatomy is devloped to be an omnivore in any way!

    Thanks for your reply - been waiting for ya. Lol.
    The myth is they eat the stomach contents from herbivores, which would be grain/greens to get rouphage for their digestive system...but it doesn't seem to be correct. Dog bites/teeth are distinct carnivore bite...useless for vegies etc.

    What would a wolf/wild canine seek out in nature? Would their eat grain/vegies or would they eat meat/bones/tendons/muscles/offal? We all know the answer to that!

    50 years ago there was no such thing as "kibble". Dogs were fed what we ate...meat and left-overs etc.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    There is always much confusion regarding raw diets. Thses are my views and my knowledge on some of the points disucssed so far.

    Veges - dogs are basicly scavengers and are not true carnivores. The canine digestive system does not adequately break down the cellulose walls of most vegetables. High processing breaks them down and makes it easier for the canine to digest and absorb the nutrients. The 'no grain' idea is a myth and is based on the fact that the canine diet should not be all grains which people fear with kibble. Some grains in the diet are fine.

    Wolves - the domestic dog of today will not survive on a diet like the wolf ate way back when. The domestic dog has altered a great deal to its ancestros and so whilst the diet should be based on the natural needs, it should never be seriously compared to the diet of a wild animal that lived hundreds of years ago.

    Bones - equal calcium and phosperous. People are under the impression that a dog needs bones just to clean, this is not true. They also need a balance of calcium and phosperous and many small breeds on raw and home made diets do not get this.

    Jodz - the most important part of your dogs diet is missing, the calcium and phosperous balance. As I am not an expert in these matters, and I am unsure of your breed, I would be hesistant in stating how much to give. However, I microwave and then grind up eggshells untill they are a fine powder and I add a small amount of this to my dog's diet when I am feeding only plain minces and not minced carcasses.
    Thanks for your input Anne. There are some things I agree with, particularly about the lack of calcium and phosphorus in many dog's diets. Bones are used very much so as part of a balanced meal. Leave them out and it is all out of whack.

    Why do you microwave the eggshells?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleasanta View Post
    The myth is they eat the stomach contents from herbivores, which would be grain/greens to get rouphage for their digestive system...but it doesn't seem to be correct. Dog bites/teeth are distinct carnivore bite...useless for vegies etc.

    What would a wolf/wild canine seek out in nature? Would their eat grain/vegies or would they eat meat/bones/tendons/muscles/offal? We all know the answer to that!

    50 years ago there was no such thing as "kibble". Dogs were fed what we ate...meat and left-overs etc.
    To my knowledge, understanding and as a result of researching, the only time wild animals will eat the stomach contents is when their victim is a small animal that is basically eaten whole. Then it is eaten, sure, but is only a tiny percentage of the whole package, so to speak.

  9. #19
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    DA, I microwave and crushed eggshells for added calcium in Pretty's pregnancy diet (yes I know added calcium in supplement form can cause problems, vet said the eggshells for her and then the pups when weaning were very beneficial) I also use them now and then crushed finely for the birds.

    I feel I could not have the commitment to adequately research and feed a balanced raw diet so as I said I use the kibble for balance. Barf apparently tries to address this. I do not know really if we normal individuals would really know what we are doing without meticulous knowledge, measuring, weighing, adding.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

  10. #20

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    I make my own yogurt. They get a big dollop on their breakkie every morning.

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