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Thread: Freezing Raw Meat Before Feeding to Dogs

  1. #1
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    Default Freezing Raw Meat Before Feeding to Dogs

    Hi everyone,

    I have recently been doing some research on the chances of a dog fed on a raw diet contracting Neosporosis. This was one of the things that may have been wrong with Holly when she died. The test came back as a"weak positive", not entirely sure what that means but she was put on a long course of the appropriate antibiotic. Whether we were too late or she may have had something else we will never know but, as I am now feeding Jenna raw, I wanted to find out if anyone else had ever had any experience of this horrible disease. The following is copied and pasted from a UK forum. It's a bit long but definitely worth a read:

    >Have any of you heard of neosporosis canineum??????

    Well, up to this week I had not, but I do know alot about this now. UNFORTUNATELY.
    Last saturday we were having a barbeque and invited just a small group of local friends.. Stephen and I went shopping to Tesco early in the week, and as I am now disabled and walk with a stick, I suggested that we purchased some of the meat for the barby, for that weekend....... as I cant go shopping on my own ( thats why you dont see me at shows these days) basically killing two birds with one stone. We purchased many items, but amongst them were two large packets of lean minced steak, that I intended to make my own burgers from... as they were large packs, and on arrival home, did not know what to do for tea, so suggested spaghetti bolognaise....... I took about one third of the mince from one of these packets and put it in a pan...... all of the rest of the meat was then frozen for the weekend. My boxer then came into the kitchen and as I had not starting cooking then, I removed some of the mince and gave it to her......mmmmmmmm she loved it. Then stephen called her, a
    nd her mother and fed the dogs , whilst I prepared the spag bol.

    This was tuesday evening last week... then came friday and Cilla was starting to act strange. Hanging her head to one side, and slightly falling as if she was drunk. Saturday she seemed to stabalise and I thought a little better, and thinking she had an inner ear infection started her on a course of synulox 250 mg tablets three times daily, as the vet would. By monday she was worse so was rushed to the vets........ I was so upset, I could not rememeber half of what he said but he did say he was doing one particular test that had to be sent away. In either case, if it did come back possitive for neospora he would start her on the antibitics there and then, and he said the synulox I had given was good.

    She was a little better on tues evening so was allowed home. still hanging her head to one side, and walking in circles and then falling over. We continued with the drugs, then, wednesday came and my vet rang to say the tests results were possitive. She was infected with neospora. We then racked our brains how she could get this awfull desease.....not virus! apparantly very few cases are reported, because it is masked by so many symptoms...

    Neospora is a parasite that is ingested from contaminted meat, that is fresh, and from the consumption it only takes 1-3 days for the parasite to attack the brain, then work its way down the spinal cord, and infect all the major organs and mussles.......leaving the dog paralised and blind..... At 9.30 yesterday morning I had to have my beautifull Cilla eathanaised, to save further suffering.

    On reserching this, on the internet, it mostly appears in cattle heards and clinicle tests have been carried out at liverpool university, and sweden, and the USA. It is usually more common in costa rica, south america, but is gradually showing up everywhere. Very few cases were reported last yr. the syptoms rang from a weekeness and paralysis of the forlimbs, drunken type behaviour, altered behavier, blindness, head tilt, head nodding, tremors, seizures,sudden death due to heart inflamation, pheumonia, skin abnormalities. Frightening isnt it?

    It can only be ingested fron fresh meat, as freezing the meat will kill the spors.... cooked meat will kill the spors. As we eat very little meat ourselves, and never feed fresh uncooked meat to our dogs , I can definatly say that it was the fresh lean mince steak from tesco, that is the cause.

    Neospora can not use humans as a host so if ingested the stomach will kill the spores, so dont worry there........ it only affects, cattle, pigs, sheep, goats, but has now moved to dogs, and research on the internet suggests ALL dog breeders be aware of this parasite. From the onset of ingesting the spores, my dog was dead within 8 1/2 days....... She was my constant house companion, and our hearts have been ripped apart. How many of you, when in the kitchen, preparing the evening meal, give some fresh meat to your dog... Please look it all up, its frightening to think that this is in the human food chain. Apparantly only one animal is inspected from each heard to be slaughtered, but thats this counrty. A lot of meat now comes from other countries..... if in doubt, still buy the meat, but FREEZE it before you intend using it for at least 24 hrs.

    Cilla was 16 months and four days old, when she died.
    I will of course, be informing DEFRA , and advising our local tesco store, but on an advisory capacity only!
    Anne Hellmuth

    All raw meat is fine to feed after it has been frozen and defrosted as this kill's the spore's.
    __________________


    I have read differing opinions on how cold the freezer has to be but it would seem that meat frozen at -20degreesC for 24 hours is ok. I have also read that -10drgreesC for 7 days would kill off the spores. Basically I suppose colder and longer the better. I have also read, though, that freezing can kill off VitaminE so maybe you might like to supplement that.

    One quick question, to those feeding kidney's, do you cook these before giving them or not. I have read that hydatids are a problem if you don't cook them. Again I think freezing them may destroy the worms, not entirely sure.

    It was so easy when I just opened a packet and poured the dry food out
    The best things in life, aren't things

  2. #2

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    Yikes! I had never heard of this one! Mine had beef this morning... I'll be paraniod now!

    Thanks for posting it. Hopefully it's not too prevalent in Australia. A bit of a worry that your old girl may have had it.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nattylou View Post
    Yikes! I had never heard of this one! Mine had beef this morning... I'll be paraniod now!

    Thanks for posting it. Hopefully it's not too prevalent in Australia. A bit of a worry that your old girl may have had it.
    That's a bit scarey that one!
    Can't say I had known about it either and we feed raw,fresh meat all the time

    From now on it will be frozen first .
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  4. #4
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    Oh no!! Yesterday, I fed Mimi and Pepsi Kidneys for the first time!!!! AND I give them raw meat daily !!! Lamb and chicken mainly. After reading this, I will be to give them any...

  5. #5

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    Something I remembered from the old school days. "Freezing does not kill germs, only heat" is backed up by this from Answer Com

    "Food borne bacteria, parasites and viruses, collectively Food Borne Pathogens ("FBP"), are typically treated in the commercial food industry using a combination of approaches. The other answers are correct in saying that cold temperatures will not kill FBPs, but rather only prevent their growth. While properly refrigerating and freezing food is an important step in preventing food borne illness, it will not kill FBPs.

    Heat is a highly effective way to kill FBPs. When using heat to kill FBPs, it is not only important to make sure the temperature is high enough, but also that the exposure to that heat is long enough. The duration of exposure should be long enough to raise the internal temperature of the food to the relevant degree. According to the National Institute of Health, some appropriate internal temperatures are as follows: 145°F for roasts, steaks, and chops of beef, veal, and lamb; 160°F for pork, ground veal, and ground beef; 165°F for ground poultry; and 180°F for whole poultry"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by woofah View Post
    Something I remembered from the old school days. "Freezing does not kill germs, only heat" is backed up by this from Answer Com

    "Food borne bacteria, parasites and viruses, collectively Food Borne Pathogens ("FBP"), are typically treated in the commercial food industry using a combination of approaches. The other answers are correct in saying that cold temperatures will not kill FBPs, but rather only prevent their growth. While properly refrigerating and freezing food is an important step in preventing food borne illness, it will not kill FBPs.

    Heat is a highly effective way to kill FBPs. When using heat to kill FBPs, it is not only important to make sure the temperature is high enough, but also that the exposure to that heat is long enough. The duration of exposure should be long enough to raise the internal temperature of the food to the relevant degree. According to the National Institute of Health, some appropriate internal temperatures are as follows: 145°F for roasts, steaks, and chops of beef, veal, and lamb; 160°F for pork, ground veal, and ground beef; 165°F for ground poultry; and 180°F for whole poultry"
    You are right that freezing does not kill germs but the evidence shows that the protozoa for Neospora Canium does not survive the freezing process. For those interested I have copied the following from a medical website. Warning - it is about an animal experiment:

    Groups of mice were given 0 mg, 4 mg, or 2 mg of methylprednisolone acetate (MPA) 7 days prior to, the day of, and 7 days after subcutaneous inoculation with 0 or 2 x 10(5) tachyzoites of Neospora caninum. Clinical signs of disease were seen only in mice given both MPA and N. caninum tachyzoites. Mice given 4 mg MPA and N. caninum tachyzoites developed severe disseminated neosporosis and most died or were killed when comatose 11-13 days postinoculation (PI). Acute pneumonia, polymyositis, encephalitis, hepatitis, and pancreatitis were the main lesions in these mice. Mice given 2 mg MPA and N. caninum developed mild pneumonia and many mice began showing neurological signs 14 days PI. Neurological signs consisted mainly of pronounced head-tilting and associated impairment of movement. Grossly visible 1-2-mm single or multiple, white areas of discoloration were seen in the brains of many of these mice. Encephalitis, ganglioradiculoneuritis, pneumonia, and polymyositis were the main changes seen in these mice. Tissue cysts of N. caninum were only seen in mice given 2 mg MPA and were first seen 21 days PI. Tissue cysts were 16-34 by 13-29 microns and had a 1.5-3.0-microns-thick cyst wall. Tissue cysts were seen only in the brain. Mice given 4 mg MPA and tachyzoites and host cells that had been frozen for 1 wk did not develop clinical signs of infection, indicating that freezing kills tachyzoites and that viruses or other agents were not involved in the genesis of disease seen in mice given MPA and viable tachyzoites.

    I'm not saying it's a guarantee but as it wouldn't do any harm, you may as well freeze meat and thaw before using. I must admit, after what happened to Holly I have not given Jenna any raw beef products yet and not sure I ever will. Interestingly, though, I should point out Holly was never fed raw meat so she didn't get it that way! She had been known to eat various animals poo, though and we have lots of cow's close by who sometimes escape from the farm. I wondered whether she ate cow poo and got it from there. As it was a 'weak positive' it's also possible this reading was left over froma previous infection. As I said we will never really know.
    The best things in life, aren't things

  7. #7
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    My dogs, and the rescues, are all fed a variety of raw meats, veges and even eggs and I have never had any issues.

    Don't get paranoid. The only sensible advice I can give is to ensure you follow normal food hygiene practices. Don't leave meat out of the fridge. Store it at the correct temperature. Throw it out if it begins to deteriorate.

    Although dogs are open to developing problems with bacteria, just as humans do, dogs do not have the same requirements as humans and do not share the same digestive system.
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  8. #8
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    Anne

    Based on info off the 'net (mostly uni or government sites) it looks like neosporosis canineum (NC) is a protozoa not a bacteria. Some protozoa actually eat bacteria. And NC can and does infect dogs. Usually farm dogs that get to eat bits of calf foetus or afterbirth from an infected cow/calf. And the cows get it from eating pasture containing infected dog poo or from their infected mothers. Hydatids - which are a (tape) worm - also get circulated this way.

    So if your meat has NC, there's a good chance it has Hydatids too. . I like my beef steak rare. But I can understand why some of my farming cousins like it well done.

    And yes some dogs have cast iron guts and some dogs have sensitive stomachs, some dogs can carry disease with no symptoms and other dogs die. Darwin would call that natural selection in favour of the dogs with cast iron guts. However generations of city life, hygienically prepared food, and good vet treatment may have altered the natural selection based on cast iron guts somewhat.

    Personally I hope they get the vaccination working and available for dogs as well as cattle ASAP. In the meantime - no raw beef for me or my dog. I do freeze the marrow bones. I know my freezer is more than -18'C (good for icecream). I think maybe it's -24'C will have to check again with the indoor/outdoor thermometer.

  9. #9
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    I was told that Hydatids does not exist is Australia. In New Zealand, where Hydatids exist, dogs are vaccinated against it.

  10. #10

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    Hydatid does exist in Australia. if you live in country where sheep are kept it can be quite common.

    I have a vet frend who is right into parasite study, I'll see if I can find out anything more about this one later in the week.

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