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Thread: Jessie's mysterious sickness

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    I can't help thinking - if it's the food - it wouldn't take 3 months to show up. But I guess if I think the medication could take 3 months for side effects to show up - the same could be true of food. I just think if it was that and you kept feeding the whatever - it wouldn't go away for 3 months it would stay with you, every day.

    It could be the disease progressing... especially if it's an auto immune one?

    How long has she been on the current anti - seizure meds, and why were the old ones changed, and what else did you change at the same time.

    Your earlier posts suggests she was getting sick on the supercoat too. Personally I think of Supercoat as Maccas for dogs. Ie they love it but... it isn't very good for them long term.
    Again I tend to agree with Hyacinth, I also read that she had been sick on Supercoat. I dont think toxins from the food build up and then she is sick and they dissapear till they build up again. I dont think it works like that, I think once they have built up and you keep feeding the food it would continue upsetting her.

    I think you need to sit down with some very specific questions that you can then ask your vet, write them down and perhaps ask for a specific plan in the light of the negative tests. I am not sure what they plan to do when she is sick again? How does that change anything?

    You have done a lot of tests but maybe you just need a specialist to help work it out and get your moneys worth by getting some specific actions and ask lots of questions.

    I once had been unwell off and on for some months. I spent a lot of time with doctors and loads of tests and scopes, all negative, trying to sort out what was going on. Eventually the doctors gave up and sent me to a specialist diagnostic physician and he had it nailed at my first appointment with him. He was simply amazing. What he diagnosed wasnt even on the doctors radar.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    Again I tend to agree with Hyacinth, I also read that she had been sick on Supercoat. I dont think toxins from the food build up and then she is sick and they dissapear till they build up again. I dont think it works like that, I think once they have built up and you keep feeding the food it would continue upsetting her.

    I think you need to sit down with some very specific questions that you can then ask your vet, write them down and perhaps ask for a specific plan in the light of the negative tests. I am not sure what they plan to do when she is sick again? How does that change anything?

    You have done a lot of tests but maybe you just need a specialist to help work it out and get your moneys worth by getting some specific actions and ask lots of questions.

    I once had been unwell off and on for some months. I spent a lot of time with doctors and loads of tests and scopes, all negative, trying to sort out what was going on. Eventually the doctors gave up and sent me to a specialist diagnostic physician and he had it nailed at my first appointment with him. He was simply amazing. What he diagnosed wasnt even on the doctors radar.
    sorry about the Supercoat I thought she was on it when she had the first bout of sickness but going back through records I changed her over to Black Hawk so it was once she went on to the Black Hawk solely as I changed her over gradually so that was my fault sorry........

    as for her meds she has been on the Phenomav for 2 years and started about a year ago when she was put over to Black Hawk......she was put on Bromav two months ago due to her blood serum level being in the normal range but at the higher end and the vet did not want her to become toxic which can happen when it is in the higher range (her blood serum levels have always been in the low to middle range)....

    she had another serum level done and her levels were at an acceptable range.....they did mention that her liver enzymes were up a little but at a range they would expect to see with her being on the medication she is on so said this was normal.....she is back to normal again at the moment and it is quite a mystery as to why every 2-3 months but will get her in to see one of the specialists to see if they can maybe have any other ideas as to what is happening....

    Hyacinth I totally agree with you but it is all I have to go on at the moment as it was only the Black Hawk that was changed and she had been on the same diet for a year beforehand.....someone said maybe her body due to the medication isn't metabolising the food or meds properly and become toxic and it was just a maybe......

    it is very frustrating and as I said I really feel helpless when she is sick and worry about her all the time.......she went and did some rally-o and obedience on Sunday and was very happy to be out there again....I love your input all of you and hope to work this out
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 12-08-2014 at 10:14 AM.

  3. #43
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    Hi LisaS

    One of the listed side effects of the new medication is "stomach upsets"

    And am I reading right - you started her on the new medication Bromav at the same time you started her on the black hawk? ie both about a year ago?

    Or two years ago she was on Phenomav and Supercoat
    one year ago you changed the food to Black Hawk (and continued with the Phenomav)
    and three months after that ( 9 months ago / March) was the first vomit session? and she's had two or three bad stomach upsets since?
    and two months ago (October) you started her on Bromav?
    and she's had one bad stomach upset while on the Bromav?

    And she had no stomach upsets on the supercoat?

    Sorry your time line is a little unclear to me.

    PS
    http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...m#side_effects

    phenobarbital used long term can cause liver damage - and liver function needs to be checked on a regular basis as well as doing blood tests to check the levels of medication. According to the epilepsy in dogs website - it's really important to feed the right dose of medication at exactly the same time, eg if it's every 12 hours it has to be 7am and 7pm (or equivalent) - there is no morning and evening wiggle room for early or late dosing.

    (table of contents - the web site isn't very well constructed tho the info seems good).
    http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...m/site_map.htm

    so as best I can tell - it's way more likely that the medication is causing the stomach upsets than the food.
    They do have two pages on nutrition for building the immune system.

    Essentially they say the same as what we've been saying - if your dog has a sensitive stomach - the easiest way to fix it is by cooking your own dog food. I do it about once a week on a cool day and freeze up single serve portions. And on hot days - she can eat her dinner - still frozen...

    I do supplement with a bit of black hawk but my dog doesn't have tummy upsets unless she eats something really bad.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 12-08-2014 at 10:37 AM.

  4. #44
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    so sorry I am all over the place....here we go

    Jessie was on Supercoat and started Phenomav 2 years ago and was fine on this
    One year after being on Phenomav started the Black Hawk and she vomited and is still on the Phenomav
    I continued the Black Hawk and whilst on the Phenomav continued with vomiting every 2-3 months
    She was started on the Bromav only two months ago (so one year after her first episode of vomiting) due to her serum level being in the normal range but in the upper limit which the vet didn't want her to become toxic and her serum level has been normal in the lower to mid range
    I continued her on Black Hawk and the last serum level which was in the lower to mid range was when she had vomited

    Hope this makes sense.....

  5. #45
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    Hi everyone I thought I would give you an update on how Jessie has been going.....after 9th December she vomited once every week but it was different in that she was sick but was still her bouncy self and I figured out it was the Bromav so we make up her tea and take some of it for breakfast and put her medications into the tea/breakfast morning and night and she has tolerated this very well with no more vomiting but we are coming up to the 2-3 month vomit at the end of January/early February so will wait and see if anything happens

    We were at our local OB club for the break-up and my daughter's instructor (who we have problems with) gave Jessie some cheese so my daughter asked him to not give her anything else because she has been sick.....Jessie sat in front of him so he gave her some we think kangaroo mince and white chocolate and guess what Jessie was very lethargic for the next two days (we are going to be talking to the club about this when we go back in February).....we felt she didn't tolerate the Royal Canin Sensitive so we have now changed her onto Supercoat Sensitive along with chicken mince, beef mince, tuna and chicken frames and guess what she is doing so well with no vomits since before christmas

    Keeping fingers crossed she continues to improve and keep handling her meds the way we are giving them to her now

  6. #46
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    fingers crossed, you're on the right track.

    As far as instructors go - or anyone really - it's important that you don't give your dog the opportunity to beg for treats - especially if she has a very nice sit and stare going. If you do want people to be able to give her treats - supervise and hand over suitable treats for them to give (that way everyone gets their give and get treat fix).

    A lot of people will just respond to a dog asking for treats nicely - in a kind of automatic fashion.

    I was lucky I didn't hand over a treat to a dog that asked nicely - fortunately for everyone - I don't automatically hand out to begging dogs and I like to ask the owner first. But I noticed the "no treats please" harness the dog was wearing after I had decided the dog wasn't getting any.

  7. #47
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    yes I am learning to become an instructor and I would never treat a dog only with permission from the owner.....this instructor was asked by my daughter but he is of the opinion he knows better than anybody else not only in treating dogs but everything and the way he is going he will be bitten because of what he does.....I am letting the club know what has happened as I am furious with him especially after my daughter asked him not to

    Jessie is going really well though and keeping fingers crossed I know Supercoat is not a great dry food but if it works for her then we will keep her on it and it is the sensitive one so keeping fingers crossed we have found something that works for her

  8. #48
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    In the end it is what works best for a particular dog. My mum tried all the expensive sensitive diets and home cooked diets for her dog that had endless upset stomachs and in the end the dog did best on tinned Pal and Supercoat, go figure.

    White chocolate? I would be annoyed if someone gave that to my dogs.

  9. #49
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    yes I am very annoyed Kalacreek and as soon as club is back I will be addressing the issue of instructors rewarding dogs without owners permission....am so glad with Jessie at the moment though as she is back to her "normal" self

  10. #50
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    I can't imagine white chocolate is sugar free... and even artificial sweeteners are bad. It's not just the brown stuff in chocolate that is bad for the dog.

    We've had all sorts of problems with instructors at my dog club. They all learned really early on not to mess with me or my dog. I actually got invited to be an instructor but I couldn't do it until they came up with a better system than yank and crank (chain collars).

    Saw one on a lab that was pulling like a sled dog this morning - arranged the wrong way around for a dog heeling nicely on the left - never mind what it's doing to the trachea of a dog out in front and pulling.

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