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Thread: Jessie's mysterious sickness

  1. #21
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    I was advised it was $125 for the test but have been given a name and phone number so could ring the vet up and have a chat to them about it.....I am thinking maybe it might be a way to go to try and find out with what is happening

  2. #22
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    Ok the hair test - definitely falls into the same category as not-science eg homeopathy.

    Unorthodox Techniques for Diagnosis and Treatment - Australasian Society of Clinical Immunology and Allergy (ASCIA)

    I think if you do decide to try it - it will only tell you about allergies - not diseases. And you would have to follow up the results with scientifically verified tests, to confirm - eg if it says your dog is allergic to corn (and that will only happen if you've been feeding corn I suspect), then you can follow that up with an appropriate blood test to confirm. And then you can do the elimination of corn from the diet with a reasonable amount of confidence that it will help.

    But if your dog has some sort of auto-immune disease and that's causing both the seizures and the stomach upsets - no amount of allergy testing will help.

    this is a story about a woman who got an auto immune disease in the brain (which doctors previously thought not possible) and it caused seizures and all sorts of other problems. Once they identified it as auto - immune they were able to treat it reasonably successfully but she also had her blood filtered (a bit like kidney dialysis). I'm guessing a dog could get something similar and it would be almost impossible to diagnose.
    Brain on fire - All In The Mind - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

  3. #23
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    yes I think I agree with you that if it eliminates allergies then it really would be a waste of money but the person who told me about the DNA testing said her mum got it done as she had urinary frequency and was put on natural remedies and is much better so maybe it was due to an allergy.....unfortunately Jessie was sick again this morning so will be back to the vets tomorrow as I will give her a day as long as she keeps drinking water and just seeing if this bout is the same as it usually is.....it is so frustrating as it has only been a week and I am thinking maybe she is having a reaction to the Black Hawk I really don't know what to do as nothing has changed except the dry food since we have had her

  4. #24
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    Hi LisaS

    How frustrating.

    Did you save a sample of the vomit (sorry to be gross) but maybe put some in a clean jar and keep it in the fridge until you can take it to the vet. Same with anything that comes out the other end. I think I'd double bag that and put it in glass jar and screw the lid on unless I had a proper sample jar.

    And like I said - hair test using a clipping from the end of the hair is not a DNA test. You need to rip out follicles to get DNA and if you have the animal you might as well use blood for a DNA test.

    If it's a genetic disease - a DNA (blood) test might be able to provide some clues.

    But most tests are done one by one for specific problems. Ie they have to look and match for specific patterns - if they don't look or do the right antibody tests - they may miss the problem. eg its like looking on page 10 for a recipe that's on page 103. Unless someone tells you to go look at page 103 - you don't find it.

  5. #25
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    I was googling for links between Fish oil supplements and vitamin E deficiency (big doses of fish oil can deplete vitamin E)

    and found this
    Facts About Vitamin E - Dr. Weil

    Right at the end it mentions Vitamin E and Fish oil but in the same line - seizure meds.

    â—¾Levels of vitamin E may be affected by seizure medications, zinc and fish oils
    You could probably get a vitamin E level check by blood test. Or just feed some extra vitamin E.

  6. #26
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    funny you put that article up Hyacinth I just came back to say after a day of doing nothing but going through vet bills, records and discussions with my husband we realised that Jessie became sick whilst on the Fish & Potato Black Hawk....I am now wondering if the emu oil or something in the Black Hawk is reacting against her anti-seizure medication so have began the process of elemination and have now changed her over to Hills Science Diet Sensitive Stomach dry food and see how she goes on that without changing anything else......no I didn't keep the vomit but had to sift through it to get her tablets and put them down her throat .....she doesn't have diarrhoea when she gets sick but next time I will gather some samples of both ends and take to the vet......keeping fingers crossed this is what is happening with Jessie and changing her dry food is what we are looking for....if this works I will still be keeping my other two on Black Hawk though because I think it is a great food for them

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    "nothing added pureed baby food pumpkin,carrot and sweet potato"

    I think you could make this fairly easily - and use a stick blender to complete the puree...

    The price of baby food is scary.

    I also find I can use a teaspoon of yogurt mixed with water as "gravy" on kibble - works well.

    @ Dogman - do you supplement vitamin E with the fish oil. Some fish oil comes packaged with Vitamin E - cos a lot of fish oil can deplete the vitamin E which leads to skin and joint problems - ironically what most people who supplement with it are trying to fix.
    No I don't supplement with vitamin E...vet never mentioned this and I knew nothing about and have never used fish oil before...just canola oil.

    Vet told me of the wonderful benefits of fish oil...but after reading your post and some research on the net it seems fish oil can do more damage than good.

    Fish Oil: The Dangers of Too Much | petMD

    Can Fish Oil Kill Dogs? | Dogs Naturally Magazine

    Yet others say how good it is for your dog...how confusing. As Chloe hasn't any skin problem and gets three tins of sardines a week which has fish oil in it and has a shiny coat...I don't know why she would need fish oil caps at all.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  8. #28
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    Some fish oil these days (for humans) is sold with extra vitamin E... so that would be a good thing to try or just add some extra vitamin E sources or tablets.

    I think fish oil can be really good you know how some people go over the top - I heard of one person feeding 6 fish oil capsules a day - I think that would need quite a bit of extra vitamin E supplement to balance. It's all about balance.

    If the seizure meds are depleting vitamin E - try feeding some extra vitamin E and see if this helps. Vitamin E is also depleted by exercise but usually - a varied diet including vegies with vitamin E will balance that.

    The trouble with fish oil capsules is that it is very concentrated... so balance needs to be found with other foods or supplements. The whole marketing is a bit crazy - who would eat 15 snapper a day and call that balanced? It would make anyone sick.

  9. #29
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    The key thing about Hills Science is that it is all about making money for the vet.

    The ingredient list tells you the truth
    Adult Sensitive Stomach - Dry

    Brewers Rice,
    Whole Grain Corn,
    Corn Gluten Meal,
    Chicken By-Product Meal,
    Dried Egg Product,
    Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Flaxseed, Lactic Acid, Soybean Oil, Oat Fiber, Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, Iodized Salt, L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), L-Tryptophan, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

    Dogs With Food Allergies: Symptoms, Common Triggers, and More
    The most common allergens are beef, dairy, wheat, egg, chicken, lamb, soy, pork, rabbit, and fish. And, most dogs are usually allergic to more than one thing.

    The Truth About Corn in Dog Food
    Corn Allergy in Dogs
    corn allergy usually shows up as itchy skin - if you're not giving your dog steroids to combat itchiness or other things, then you may find adding a corn rich diet causes lots of skin problems.

    So the top ten list of ingredients for the Hills Sensitive Stomach include 6 common allergen triggers in dogs. I'd be taking the food back and asking for my money back.

    Last time the vet nurse tried to sell me something for tummy upset - I made her read the ingredients on the food she was trying to sell me and explain why each of those were good for my dog. They're going to have a hard time explaining the first three. Needless to say - she didn't sell me the product - she couldn't even sell it to herself after that.

    But having said chicken and rice (cereal) can be bad for a dog with an upset tummy - it was usually boiled chicken and rice that my dog would get for the first few days after a fast - until everything was back to normal. Chicken is only a problem if your dog is allergic to that - and I think there is a blood test for that.

    The good thing about the Hills food is it does include vitamin E supplements - twice? so that might help if she's low in that.

    Better choices (based on the ingredient list) are in the Royal Canin range and the Nutro Natural Choice range.

  10. #30
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    Have you had a referral to a specialist vet? I know someone who was having all sorts of problems with diet for their dog. They were referred to a specialist vet at Murdoch University and they managed to sort through it and find an appropriate diet. It did mean that the owner had to make the diet up but the dog was a lot healthier.

    It is a complicated problem, not always easy to solve.

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