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Thread: Jessie's mysterious sickness

  1. #11
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    Oct 2014
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    yes Hyacinth the dogs cannot see or hear each other whilst eating their carcasses and myself and my daughter stand there and watch them carefully whilst they eat the carcasses.....Jessie loves crunching the bones up and does chew them right up and I thought I might get those bowls to slow their eating down I know Dezzy and Jessie needs these bowls due to them their chicken mince quite quickly and still they are in different rooms but they only get one carcass a week and Jessie has become sick with eating chicken mince, beef mince or tuna as well.....this is their regular diet so nothing has changed.....Jessie probably doesn't crunch the chicken wings and turkey necks up as much as she does the carcasses....do you think I should just feed Jessie on the Black Hawk only and take her off all meats or maybe put her on kangaroo or human grade beef mince with the Black Hawk....I am willing to try anything to see if it helps

  2. #12
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    do you think I should just feed Jessie on the Black Hawk only and take her off all meats or maybe put her on kangaroo or human grade beef mince with the Black Hawk
    It might be worth a try.. just to see if the bones are contributing. Bones are a major factor in my dog's tummy upsets and because she doesn't get them very often, I notice. Lately she's gotten away with small quantities of contraband, for example she found a piece of chicken drumstick bone and ate it before I could get it off her (I really should work on that) and so far - no ill effect much to my relief.

    But if I give her a bit of lamb neck (soup bones) we have problems because she makes splinters and swallows them and then the splinters come back to haunt us. I have seen advice along the lines of if the dog is fed raw meat on a regular basis - they are better at digesting bones so the splinters get broken down (white poops at the park) but my dog doesn't seem to do this - tho we got a decent white poop after the frozen turkey neck - I fed that to her frozen so she couldn't just fold it up and swallow it.

    If the problem is diet related you would need to change her diet for significant period of time eg if it's every three months - you'd need to eliminate the culprit for at least 4 months - but you don't start off knowing what the culprit is - so you make a plan - I will eliminate this from the diet for ... and see. But if the problem is not diet related she will get the problem anyway and you might blame the food.

    So an "elimination diet" is best done with the supervision of someone (vet or vet nutritionist) who specialises in them. There are also a number of tests that can be done to see if some component of the food is causing the allergy problem. Eg Black Hawk is great for a lot of dogs (mine included) but some dogs get sick or skin problems on it.

    There are a number of brands of kibble that provide help with elimination diets eg if you think the allergy is chicken - nutro and black hawk make a fish based product - except I think it still contains chicken fat. Royal Canin also provides a wide variety of kibble that could help with an elimination diet.

    I'm not a vet, I don't know if your dog's problem is diet related or just a simple build up side effect of her medication (one of the listed side effects is tummy upset), or if modifying the diet would reduce the medication side effect, or if it's something else entirely. It's just an idea.

    Do you ever feed yogurt or cooked pumpkin? These can be beneficial to gut flora. I think a dog can have lots of pumpkin but yogurt may or may not be ok - depends a bit on the dog and the yogurt some have more lactose (bad) than others. My dog gets a couple of spoonfuls of Margaret River or Paris Creek or Jalna (when I couldn't get the others) a day and seems ok with that - I gotta make up for the lack of bones somewhere (tho I think the black hawk has it covered). And in her casserole that I make - I put carrot and (pumpkin or sweet potato) as the main veg.

    You could try eliminating the black hawk - with the Vet's all Natural (aka VAN) system. And then you can control the protein entirely and the veg too. Would make working out which food is the culprit easier - if it is the food - because it might be something else.

  3. #13
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    My GSD Tara had stomach problems but wasn't the same as you....she would go out every other day eat grass and vomit what the vet said was excess bile and did this all her life.

    My dogs have never been given chicken wings... carcasses... turkey necks or anything else other than a brisket bone once a week because chicken bones are just too dangerous. They also get three tins of sardines in spring water per week with kibble and Chloe gets two fish oil capsules per day and a 2x2 dog biscuit before they go to bed...this seems to work well for us.

    You could give this a try and you don't need to buy super kibble either...kangaroo mince won't hurt but I wouldn't give them chicken mince...could make them sick unless it comes from the butcher.

    I was in the supermarket a few years ago and saw this diced pet meat in plastic packets...look good so I gave it to my dogs with their food...the next thing I know all three had terrible Diarrhoea and needed medication from the vet...I learn my lesson.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  4. #14

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    Thanks Hyacinth. I've been researching and nutro or natural balance came up good but natural balance is harder to source. Vets natural is good but I'm finding it hard to fill her up even with the raw meat increased. She has lost a little weight and my family reckons she hungry al the time. I'm gooing to try nutro weight management because it has a lower fat content needed for a schnauzer.

  5. #15

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    I feed cooked mashed (she has thrown up chopped up sweet potato too lazy to chew it) pumpkin or sweet potato with my dogs food almost every day and she does well with this. I also feed yoghurt regularly which she loves. I have also recently fed "nothing added pureed baby food pumpkin,carrot and sweet potato" which makes a gravy when the food is a bit dry.

  6. #16
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    "nothing added pureed baby food pumpkin,carrot and sweet potato"

    I think you could make this fairly easily - and use a stick blender to complete the puree...

    The price of baby food is scary.

    I also find I can use a teaspoon of yogurt mixed with water as "gravy" on kibble - works well.

    @ Dogman - do you supplement vitamin E with the fish oil. Some fish oil comes packaged with Vitamin E - cos a lot of fish oil can deplete the vitamin E which leads to skin and joint problems - ironically what most people who supplement with it are trying to fix.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 12-01-2014 at 02:26 PM.

  7. #17
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    thanks everyone some great suggestions that I will try....Jessie does get yoghurt but only a teaspoon with her tea but as I said she has been on the same food for 4 1/2 years and not had any problems except in the last 12 months.....she was on Supercoat when she started to get sick and then Black Hawk and I do feel she was a bit worse on the fish and potato so she has been on the lamb or chicken but mainly the chicken and rice as it is lower in fat and protein.....

    it will be a process of elimination and the vet is going to wait until the next time she is sick then she will go in and be put on a special diet to see if that helps....it has also been suggested maybe Addison's disease which I don't think they have tested for so will be talking to my vet again to see what she thinks....it is a possibility as the symptoms for Addison's can be different in each individual dog.....

    I do like the Black Hawk and I used to feed her Eagle Pak Holistic and Canidae before the Supercoat and now the Black Hawk....she is back to normal for the moment and I think testing needs to be done when she is sick but maybe diseases like Addison's can be detected when she isn't sick......I keep hoping each time that this is the last time it will happen to her but it just keeps happening so I really want to find out what is causing her to be like this......

    when she is sick my daughter holds her head and cries and looks after her like a mother so Jessie is in great hands when it happens but it is so frustrating not knowing what it is and how we can help her when it happens....during this sickness also her temperature is raised only slightly and she continues to drink water
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 12-02-2014 at 03:37 PM.

  8. #18
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    Hi Lisa S

    I guess getting a diagnosis like Addisons would be a relief because then you'd know. This not-knowing is a PITA.

    If you do find out anything more - come and update the thread for all of us. I had a bit of a look at the human stories on Addisons and misdiagnosis is rampant for that one - it's mostly the patient themselves doing lots and lots of their own research and then suggesting or insisting the doctors do the appropriate tests - that they find out.

    It could be some degenerative thing - that will (like the seizures) just get worse as your dog gets older. No idea what you do then. Not fun at all. I have another friend who has a dog (kelpie x - ought to be super healthy), who has seizures and that dog is steadily getting worse and more wobbly... and they haven't found any way to treat it. And that dog is the same age roughly as my dog. Sigh. They're puppy-friends. It's so sad.

  9. #19
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    yes Hyacinth these beautiful babies can be heartbreaking but give so much love back at you....it has been suggested to try hair DNA which I might look into....it is $125 for dogs and if you go with the attitude of its a test which may or may not be able to give us answers then I think it might be worth trying.....keeping fingers crossed this is the last bout for her but have a feeling it will happen again and I will most certainly let you all know the outcome if there is one....keeping fingers crossed something turns up sooner or later that can be treated

  10. #20
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    The hair test is pretty good (for horses) that I know of. A GP suggested I do it for me (cost $250 ish eek)... it gives feedback on lots and lots and lots of different allergies. And then you can use that to follow up with allergy blood tests or elimination trials.

    I'm not sure how reliable it is - or how much scientific study it has backing it but it has helped people I know. But so has "homeopathy" (sigh).

    I didn't spend the money for me. I didn't see the value in it at the moment.

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