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Thread: What do you think about the quality of vet care in Australia?

  1. #1

    Default What do you think about the quality of vet care in Australia?

    Hi,

    I have just been told that I cant comment on another forum because the moderator has had 20 years in the vet industry. Therefore he is the sole expert.

    This was in regards to a question about quarantine about to drop its days from 30 to ten but the boorishness of the moderator has me question a lot about him and previous vet experiences I have had and been told about.

    I have a great vet now, and one that shows emotion for my dog, not just a 'clinical detached pay as you enter their franchise' kind of behaviour.

    I have walked dogs for owners who were advised to chain their dogs up, when the dogs were barking and when they tried to dig out, then the vets gave several of my clients anti anxiety drugs. Basically brought the dogs one step closer to be unnecessarily put down.

    NONE of these vets advised daily walks or nutrition options.

    Did you know that dogs and cats are carnivores. Most people are willing to accept scientific classification of cats as exclusive carnivores and some people argue that does are optional carnivores. If the cat classification is true, and it is widely accepted - then why do most vets sell pellets that have at most 20% meat in them on their shelves? Do you see where I am doubting that they always work in the best interest of the dogs and cats, and a lot of time its financial pressure.

    I guess on my current personal and client experience, I see that the vet industry is going the way of the GP industry. Medicate at all cost, and feed your carnivore wheat. There is not behavioural recommendations for most of them, and even the common daily exercise option is rarely considered.

    To be told by someone that I cant comment on quarantine rules, because they have vet experiences is farcical if they are one of the vets I have just discussed. I have engineering and marketing degrees, but I don't suppress people based on a piece of paper. There are many medical research papers released on dog and cat diseases each year that are available for anyone to read, and there is a fair chance that at the scientific level that these are written at (often complex medical, gene research level) that many practising vets would struggle with the terminology. NO I am not a vet, and I value their surgeon skills. However bedside manner and their ability to provide basic advice on pet behaviour seems to be lacking a lot of time in this part of the world.

    Am I alone in this view?
    Bruce is a "dog walker in inner west Melbourne" & sells "Healthy Dog treats." My dog Archie approves of these things.

  2. #2
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    LovelyDog

    I find it a bit odd that you're having a rant here about a moderator on another forum. I'm glad you kept names out of it. I suppose it's no different to having a general rant about bad service anywhere.

    I'm only getting from this post that you're upset that your post about something got deleted on some other forum.

    I'm not real sure what the something was about.

    Did you want to say something about the quarantine changes? How long does it take for rabies to show up, symptom wise? If it gets in here - I guess that's just another vaccine we all have to buy - which is good for vets and pharmaceutical companies. A bit like certain pests being released across Australia to increase a certain companies pesticide sales. That was really rude that was. It does happen.

    Did you want to say something about dog food? Or that dogs are carnivores and shouldn't eat subway sandwich wrappers? (please come explain that to my foraging evil hound).

    My vets both discussed nutrition options and daily walks and exercise and things like "environmental enrichment". And we argue about food and training methods - one of them is even president of my dog club. I guess if you've seen the semi-feral dogs in third world countries and the aboriginal lands - you'd reckon most urban Aussie dogs have it pretty good no matter what they eat. Some of them, their main problem is getting too much food to eat.

    And my vet (the dog club pres) did say that the recommended daily allowance on most dog food packs is about 30% too much for your average desexed dog that gets a 30 minute walk a day. But he said - the dog food companies are in the business of selling more dog food. One of their biggest scams - is diet dog food - seriously? But even some of my friends would rather feed that, than deal with the big brown eyes hungry look their dogs give them.

    There is some horrible FUD going around on facebook about what goes into dog food. And just because there is a video on facebook about it - doesn't make it true. Tho personally - I won't feed my dog commercial tinned dog food. Just not worth the pong afterwards.

    So I reckon in here - so long as you don't directly name or identify the people you want to vent about - go right ahead. If anyone wants details - they can ask in a private message (pm) because that doesn't count as "broadcasting" or "making public".

    And I think dog food quality, dodgy facebook FUD (Fear Uncertainty & Doubt), quarantine rules and what the changes might mean, etc are fair game. Anyone discussing FUD in order to promote their own brand of dog food? Not so happy with that. Again if people want to know - they can PM the relevant person.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 04-30-2013 at 09:30 PM. Reason: fix LD name a bit. Oops.

  3. #3

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    Dear Hyacinth,

    I wasnt so happy getting rail roaded on the other forum. Nothing was deleted, I was just shouted at by the crowd demanding quarantine days be dropped to ten max. Which I still don't agree with.

    But this post here was primarily about vets and advice (or lack of) that I dont agree with. You indeed have a very involved, considerate, nice etc vet. I have never been told such stories by the limited number of clients I am in touch with. Perhaps they are all good and its just my area? No areas given here.

    "Discussing FUD in order to promote your brand of dog food" Well considering that my signature is removed and I didnt mention that I promote dog food, I am hoping that isnt an issue.

    "Or that dogs are carnivores and shouldn't eat subway sandwich wrappers? (please come explain that to my foraging evil hound). " In this regards I have found that one can either lob in a forum section where everyone wants t talk about how great manufactured dog food is, or you lob in the raw section, where they just talk about that. I understand that dogs are classified as scavengers too, but in the wild they probably wouldn't find that many subway stores? And the whole 30% over budget is quite possible. I have just bought a book that talks about the issue of manufactured foods being made 'overly palatable' so they trick dogs systems into over eating. That in the wild with raw food, this is not an issue, but coupled with short walks, then overeating is disastrous.

    When my dog begs for food and I feel he has eaten his quota i sometimes give him a long and harder chewing natural treat (tendons/ bully sticks etc) that will make him earn it.

    Perhaps this post should have been about all the great vets out there, and how I have just been unlucky?
    Bruce is a "dog walker in inner west Melbourne" & sells "Healthy Dog treats." My dog Archie approves of these things.

  4. #4
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    Hi LovelyDog

    I should have phrased that thing about the FUD and dog food a bit better.

    Anyone who comes here and uses scare tactics or just spam to promote a product, any product, is going to be censored by the mods according to the forum rules on advertising. I guess the way I said it was my own rant about being sucked in to watch that damn facebook video which is some USA invention, and nothing to do with you in particular as far as I can tell. I'll go fix it up a bit.

    I also remove ads for things that promote a health outcome (eg stopping paralysis ticks) when their own product website says the thing doesn't do that. And the studies are not big enough and done without placebos or double blind (people don't know if they're testing the real product or not), etc ie I don't like when people promote scams. Even when they're perfectly good regular contributors. But again - that's my own rant and not directed at you. As far as I remember you didn't do that. I think you can change your sig to blank if you prefer.

    It's always best to say what vets we like. But sometimes we need to tell the dodgy vet stories, so that everyone can see what vet service should not be like. Otherwise how would you know?

    As for the "overly palatable" - that's what I mean when I say dogs (my dog in particular), like supercoat like teenagers like maccas. ie the argument "My dog likes it so it must be good for her" is not valid. And we have two major food companies in Australia - Mars - which makes Nutro Natural Choice, Advance, Pedigree and others; or Nestles - which makes Supercoat, Purina, Beneful, and others. Each product is different from the others.

    At least - Frosty gets the runs on Advance but not on Nutro. I don't know why exactly but the guy that sold me the nutro (and the advance) - not a vet; said that Nutro starts with better quality ingredients. Which is certainly what the ingredient list says.

    And note - that these products made in Australia do not have the same ingredients as the same badged product in the USA. Because they use different fillers based on what is easy to get. We have a lot of wheat here, and not nearly as much corn meal for example. Not that either of these are all that good for a dog.

    Maybe - since vets don't volunteer this stuff, we should write a bunch of questions that need to be asked every time we visit a vet.

    eg
    can you check the microchip for me (to make sure it is where it should be).
    can you check teeth and joints please. (my vet also checked ears, weight and temperature - love the look on dogs face - puckered up at both ends).
    can you give some advice on exercise, training and nutrition.
    (note my vet advised bones - but these would just make money for vet - cos they cause my dog all manner of trouble because she doesn't chew them up properly before she swallows great shards of bone splinters.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 04-30-2013 at 09:31 PM.

  5. #5
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    Ps you can also put your website in your home page on your profile - which is not the same as putting it on your sig. I regard this as ok for Australian forum contributors. And not ok for foreign people trying to bump search engine ranking for a product or business (Australian or not).

  6. #6

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    I've had a rant about vets before, from my experience most are more about trying to suck dollars out of your wallet than actually providing the best medical advice they can. Having said that, there are a few very good caring vets around and if you manage to find one then treasure them.

  7. #7
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    I have a great vet, carefully selected based on advice from this forum when I got my dog as a puppy.
    I am fortunate there are a few choices in my town. They have been unfailingly helpful in crisis ( rat poison and later a fish hook, the first seriously life threatening)
    The advice I have had lined up completely with what I understood as good practice.
    My vet sells BARF but the vet nurse lent me a book about how to do it yourself. Which I do. Sure they sell all the other stuff like Advanced (which gives Maggy the runs) but I don't have to buy it again. They are a business and will provide what the customer asks for within their own parameters
    I also belong to a great medical practice that has a vision of family practice.I don't go to the doctor and blindly follow everything as I consider that I am responsible for my own health and they are most definitely not God but may be helpful when I am stuck. I also know a good nutritionist/ pharmacist who doesn't head to the drugs as the first port of call. I need to go with good questions.
    Unfortunately forums can fairly easily become controlled by singular viewpoints unless moderated well. I think this website is. It is why I come back. I come on here for amusement, information and interesting conversations.
    I certainly don't always agree with some viewpoints but have never been offended. I have dealt with incompetent vets and doctors and paid a heavy personal price for their poor practice. I learned the hard way to do my homework and find a good one. They are out there.

    Feel free to have a rant. When you feel better, post up some pictures of your pooch
    Last edited by farrview; 04-30-2013 at 06:37 AM.

  8. #8
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    There are good vets and bad vets, just like with doctors. I have had my share of both. If I wanted nutritional advice I would probably go to a dog nutritionist. However my dogs are glossy, lean and high energy on a diet of mix of grain free kibble and a supermarket brand plus raw bones and raw meat. I dont get too obsessed with diet. It isnt rocket science to see if your dog is putting on weight, you just make adjustments. Dogs can do fine on commercial foods but the feeding recommendations are only a guide. I have dogs that need half the amount and dogs that require every bit of what is recommended, depends on breed, age and their level of work. Just needs some common sense.

    I would hope that the quarantine rules will be guided by research and solid scientific fact rather than a forum demanding changes. Review of rules is appropriate but changes would be made hopefully only if the evidence supports it. Certainly the quarantine rules for bringing dogs into the country have been relaxed over the years. Once it was virtually impossible.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyacinth View Post
    Ps you can also put your website in your home page on your profile - which is not the same as putting it on your sig. I regard this as ok for Australian forum contributors. And not ok for foreign people trying to bump search engine ranking for a product or business (Australian or not).
    Hi Hyacinth, does that mean that I can have both my dog sites in the signature as long as their is no other test around them just delimeters, or do I wait for a mod to modify them?

    It is true that I am in the dog industry, but I also do my own research on nutrition (science papers) and on Google trends in dogs, and enjoy what others have to say in this country. Sometimes its hard stepping into a forum where there is a hard core bunch of people who know each other very well and think alike (not necessarily this forum). In those cases it is difficult to offer an opinion (even based on research etc) without getting a lot of wrath. I know there is a thin or thick like between sigs, posts and advertising, so am happy to keep getting guidance.
    Bruce is a "dog walker in inner west Melbourne" & sells "Healthy Dog treats." My dog Archie approves of these things.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    There are good vets and bad vets, just like with doctors. I have had my share of both. If I wanted nutritional advice I would probably go to a dog nutritionist. However my dogs are glossy, lean and high energy on a diet of mix of grain free kibble and a supermarket brand plus raw bones and raw meat. ....

    I would hope that the quarantine rules will be guided by research and solid scientific fact rather than a forum demanding changes. Review of rules is appropriate but changes would be made hopefully only if the evidence supports it. Certainly the quarantine rules for bringing dogs into the country have been relaxed over the years. Once it was virtually impossible.
    Hi Kalacreek. The only addition I would suggest about a dog nutritionist, is what credentials actually make such a person? If they qualify as a vet can they automatically become one? Because from what I understand (and happy to be corrected) I dont think vets spend a lot of time on nutrition or dog behaviour/ fitness/ requirements for socialisation in their studies. I think they are still mostly taught on a medical stream, to fix things that are broken and need repair, not on keeping dogs well. I wonder how many dog nutritionists are true raw feeders, and how many sell their man made wares? It would be dangerous to come out of vet school and be a person who was anti manufactured dog food, when most vets can make a substantial part of their sales from such products.

    You also mention "diet of mix of grain free kibble" if kibble has maybe 20% meat in it, and no grain, what is it made of then? Vegetables? I honestly dont know.

    "quarantine rules will be guided by research and solid scientific fact" I think this is another interesting debate. Many people in this OTHER forum (not a specific dog forum) said that Australia is full of dog diseases and we should not be so precious. I dont see how 'scientific fact' can tell you that a new disease wont be created, and that its incubation period wont be more than ten days. The counter argument to this is that incubation could be 40 days or a year, so they suggest there is no safe quarantine period so you may as well have none.

    I thought quarantine was about the safety of the dogs already in a country, and new comers and new dogs had to respect that. If science, vets and immunology specialist can tell me that we are now so clever that 30 days is just way over cautious and anything that will occur to dogs in the future will happen in the first then days, then I am happy to call them Gods. Swine flu, mad cow disease, animal aids and a few other nasties came 'out of no where'. If this statement is 'scaremongering' and FUD, then i apologise. I just don't see how 20 less days (when a dog may live to ten plus years minimum) is a bad price to pay for keeping the dogs already in a country safe (or safer) now, and for most future possible outbreaks. For this I was told that I don't care about humans and other pets, and that I am a dog walker who cant comment because I am not a vet. The forum moderator then proclaimed that no on in there should use my services, because I dared to speak out against the political push to lower quarantine standards (days). Yes the attack was mighty personal and what I would consider a rant (considering I started the thread with a positive assertion valuing dogs lives)?!

    I don't always think that science & research and projected outcomes are always taken into full consideration when a decision becomes political. But that is just me.
    Bruce is a "dog walker in inner west Melbourne" & sells "Healthy Dog treats." My dog Archie approves of these things.

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