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Thread: Mystery Illness

  1. #11
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    PS I don't usually recommend another forum but this one is Vizsla specific (USA based, I think)

    You could try asking there - as there are just so many more people in the USA, more Vizslas and more experience.

    Health Problems

    This one specifically describes an auto immune problem... or several of them if you read to the end.
    Possible auto immune disease, or leukemia

  2. #12
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    OK I work in A Interventional/Diagnostic Radiology facility..if this was a human the first call of port after the non-conclusive ultrasound would be a Cat scan...it is more diagnostic, but you need a Veterinary Radiologist.

    There are so many different things could be..but most are very negative.

    Do you know if the Ascites fluid was sent to a Pathology lab..When it is spun down it could also have given many answers.

    There are some Vets in Melbourne that have CT's.........Where my Katy went Vet Emergency had one. Werribee is another.

    There is also MRI, but that is even more expensive..........Good luck
    Pets are forever

  3. #13
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    My dog had to be PTS as she had hermangiosarcoma (sp??) (cancer) and her symptoms were pretty variable.

    Initially she had an enlarged spleen which went away. Then she had weight loss. Which she gained back. Then she had siezure type things a few in a few months. Then she had SEVERE weight loss (when she arrived in Australia after staying at a friends for 3 months, she weighed 13 kgs instead of the 18 she should). Then she gained the weight back. Then her abdomen swelled and she leaked wees everywhere and couldnt even get up to go toilet, and she couldnt do poos and she was depressed. Then we got a diag and I opted for no treatment (she was 12) after I researched how useless any treatment would be.

    I am just wondering, have you been to a different vet each time a new symptom appears? Have you thought about visiting the same vet each time so the one vet gets an informed history and can get the bigger picture?

  4. #14
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    Do you know if the Ascites fluid was sent to a Pathology lab..When it is spun down it could also have given many answers.
    Hi Newfsie, thanks for your response.Yes, we did have this done, and didnt really show anything of note. Werribee stated "analysis of the fluid is consistent with a modified transduate, though no underlying cause has been identifed". We investigated a CT Scan as an option, but as nothing had really presented to indicated this would show anything more then the xrays...we opted against this avenue and trauma for Jake. (He gets quite knocked around by Anesthesia) The vet also agreed with this course.

    ...Cancer...
    As I said earlier, I have heard all these stories and diagnosis before. My gut feeling is he something underlying all these issues. I am fully aware cancer is a very likely diagnosis, but something tells me something else is going on here. I do know my dog, and I know he is a great sook. Bouts of Canker have set him flat on his tummy for days at a time. He just doesnt present as a dog who is suffering from something the vets have described, as I think he would be a lot different in attitude.

    Wouldn't cancer show up on the x rays?
    This is what I would have thought, but the only thing of note on the numerous ultrasounds and xrays was the two symetrical "soft tissue opacity's" and then last week, the thickening of the bladder walls. Its of interest that the two masses in his chest didnt present on xrays 4 weeks prior, and apparently were very quick growing and aggressive. These were thought to be secondary to another mass "somewhere" in his body, which had failed to show. It was the primary tumour causing the Ascites. The time frame of 4 weeks matched his onset of a nasty cough. However, these symptoms soon stopped, both the cough and Ascetis after treatment for his tonsillitis began, and steroid treatment for swollen lymphs. Again, if these aggressive tumours appeared like they were supposed to, and were supposed to carry him off if they were cancer, I cant help but think they may have been Hilar lymphs after all. Yet another NO in the cancer box...despite the presentation of the original symptoms. Its things like this that steer me away from the big C as a diagnosis, and they keep happening.

    Heres another list of things Vizsla can get.
    Thanks for those links. I will have a read. Much appreciated! The ITP diagnosis on the Vizsla forum is quite interesting...

    yet the only diagnosis that could be drawn from sudden onset of incredibly growth-sagressive tumours was cancer
    This is my problem. If it cant be explained simply, it must be cancer. I had a friend some years ago who grew a basket ball sized benign tumour in the tummy (They were a BIG person originally) and all symptoms presented as cancer, tests failed to be conclusive but she was told due to the growth it had to be cancer. It ended up being an operable benign tumour...that had grown incredibly fast. I dont know what happened with Rosie, but I am tired of hearing that line from the vets, "Oh, its not a UTI, must be cancer" or "it doesnt show up an kidney stones, gotta be cancer. Sorry". Thats fine, it may be...but I am his owner, and Im not giving up...so bloody offer me something else! :-) My frustration isnt aimed at you guys, just at the vets responses.

    I am just wondering, have you been to a different vet each time a new symptom appears? Have you thought about visiting the same vet each time so the one vet gets an informed history and can get the bigger picture?
    No, we consistently went to one vet locally, who eventually said there was a possible mass in his tummy, we need to open him from chest to tail to check. I havent been back to them since. We then went to a vet recommended by our breeder, who we have been seeing since and getting some decent responses from, up until the last "suspiciously looks like cancer" diagnosis, which frustrated me somewhat. We have been to the other vets in between this. The two of note are probably Melbourne Uni Vet Hospital, Werribee, and the other was a Chinese Medicine clinic, in Bentleigh.

  5. #15
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    Cancer is a lot of different things... ie "Cancer" by itself is a bit vague - like saying "infection" and not saying what. Though when it comes to viruses - it's really hard - they're such small suckers - usually only an electron microscope can make images of them and then there are so many - not all identified or classified. We haven't even classified all the vertibrates on the planet let alone viruses and infections. And those things can cause cancers too.

    So I understand you wanting something more specific, but I also understand why the vets aren't able to figure it out.

    With the cancer diagnosises - what treatments were they recommending? I know for humans - most of the cancer treatments suck big time but some are improving. Chemo therapy is not nearly as horrible now as it was 15 years ago. It's still horrible but not I'd rather die of cancer horrible any more.

    Keep us updated - I'm all curious now.

  6. #16
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    Thanks Hyancith.

    His vet has recommended we put him on piroxicam, which is a human pain killer, that has been shown to slow bladder/prostrate cancer. I spoke to him again last night, and as I suspected, he has now latched on to the last pathologist report as gospel and his only treatment suggestion is for cancer. I even asked for options if we take the path that its "not" cancer, just for a hail mary style treatment...but he isnt even willing to go with that. I suspect he is out of ideas, and over the whole thing...as I mentioned earlier.

    Dont get me wrong, I am still fully aware cancer is a distinct possibility, but while Jake isnt in pain and seems fairl well...why not try other avenues? Especially when the cancer diagnosis is quite vague.

    Anyway, we are currently seeing a chinese herbalist...and treating him with a variety of medicines. To see if that can help.

    We have also contact another vet suggested by somebody on this forum, via email...and had a very lengthy response from her. She suggests all his symptoms when put in a big picture, are indicative of an Auto Immune disorder. So we are consider hitting vet #7, and seeing what she can come up with, seeing as our regular vet isnt even scratching his head anymore, and seems to have tapped out of the contest.

  7. #17
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    Ok Cancer, except for bone does not show up in Plain X-ray...Cat Scans are significantly different as it can show up areas that do not show up in plain x-ray and Ultrasound.......Any person who has a vague problem has an abdominal CT scan..it is the norm and "best practise"......Abdominal and pelvic CT looks at the abdominal and pelvic organs (such as the liver, spleen, kidneys, pancreas, and adrenal glands) and the gastrointestinal tract. These studies are often ordered to check for a cause of pain and sometimes to follow up on an abnormality seen on another test such as an ultrasound.

    If you have a calm dog it only has to have some sedation...that is all my newfie had here at work (our vet gave the sedation, but it was done at my work). CT allow more movement compared to MRI, where any movement interferes with good images
    If you really want to get to the bottom of this.....CT scan can show areas that might be able to be Biopsied........Some lymp nodes (deep and cannot be seen in US) can also be seen and some early cancers can be detected. Even some that are rare and in the abdominal wall, Omentum or other dificult to "see" area.
    With CT scans, the image of the soft tissue is as clear as the image of hard bone. Since they pick up details that are not clear in X-rays, CT scans can image small cancers that would not be otherwise detectable.


    Ascites is often a sign of Liver secondary cancer or liver disease (not cancer)....it can also occur if there are tumours around/near the bowel or the Omentum.

    Some of the Renal problems can even cause ascites.....Renal cancers/tumours in humans are often only seen in Cat scans or MRI..Only the quite large ones are picked up in Ultrasound.

    If it was my dog and I could afford it I would seek a person who is familiar with Cat Scans in dogs.

    Some endocrinal problems cn also give some of these symptoms..........
    Last edited by newfsie; 07-12-2012 at 11:15 AM.
    Pets are forever

  8. #18
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    Why not try vet who does holistic/natural/herbal treatment as well? Even if you get a diagnosis or part of it, its unlikely to be treated with 1 easy pill anyway...

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