Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: Confirming Details of Raw Feeding

  1. #1
    Kaer's Avatar
    Kaer is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Inner West Sydney
    Posts
    164

    Default Confirming Details of Raw Feeding

    I've decided to start Milo, now 9 month old kelpie, on a raw diet since his Advance Puppy Growth kibble is running out. I've done quite a bit of research on raw diet, and yes, I have read through existing threads about raw diet on this forum. I just wanted to get some things straight so I'm sure I have my facts right before starting him on the diet (estimated in 4 days time that the kibble will be finished).

    1. Start him cold turkey on the diet
    2. Feed 2-3% of adult weight (his father weighs 16kg, so I should be feeding Milo about 400g a day)
    3. Feed one protein source (I've chose chicken) for about 3 weeks with no variety (no organs, other meats)
    4. Slowly introduce other meat types after the 3 week period
    5. Fish (mackeral, tuna, etc.) and eggs should only be fed maximum once a week
    6. Freeze meats for at least 24 hours before feeding to kill any potential parasites

    This is what I can think of at the top of my head right now... am I missing any other important things?

    I have bought a whole chicken today and asked the butcher to get it into quarters for me. I would like to see his response after 2 days, and if it looks like he won't be picky, then I'll buy more chicken.

    This is what his diet is like now:
    Every day in the morning he gets either 1/4 chicken carcass or 1/2 Advanced Puppy Growth kibble.
    On the days he has the kibble, he gets a Pedigree denta stix after dinner.
    For dinner he would get 1-1.5 cups of Advanced Puppy Growth kibble AND one of the following:
    - cooked white rice with cooked meat from soup (often)
    - half a can of Advanced Puppy Growth wet food (probably once a fortnight)
    - a tin of tuna in spring water (after a day of lots of exercise, but max. once a week)
    - a cracked egg (probably once a month)

    Every day when I train him, I normally just use the kibble as treats, and normally I use up 1/4 cup in training.

    He has a somewhat shiny coat with white teeth. But, he has a heavy dog odour even straight after a bath (bathed fortnightly) and releases stink bombs. When I first got him as a 10 week old, he did zoomies quite often. Now, it happens very little, but still does occur every now and then. He would get runny poo about twice a week. Compared to other puppies he has met, Milo is rather calm (I think it's his tempament), but is full of energy when it comes to chasing games with other dogs, fetch, etc. He isn't a dog that lacks energy so I don't think I will see the "change in liveliness" claimed from raw diet feeders.

    Questions I'd like to ask:
    1. He normally gets 2 meals (a small breakfast and bigger dinner). If I feed him 1/4 of a chicken, it weighs about 375g. That's the same about he needs to be fed daily. How do I continue feeding twice daily? Would feeding 1/4 chicken carcass in the morning exceed how much he needs to eat?
    2. Can I feed the same organs (e.g. always liver) or do I need to vary the organ too?
    3. Do I need to remove fat or can I give it as it was from the butcher? (After frozen and then thawed before feeding)

    I might come up with more... But got a mind blank!

  2. #2
    Hyacinth's Avatar
    Hyacinth is online now Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    9,781

    Default

    erm. No idea on quantities but I think you need to work out the energy of all the food and base your quantities on that.

    Maybe the easiest way is to weigh dog every couple of weeks and up or down the amount of food by about 5% until you get a balance that works.

    Some fat is ok, lots of fat is not. But I'm not sure the ratios. There might be a clue on the nutritional panel of the advance puppy food.

    And a desexed dog needs 1/3 less than an entire dog. My hound target weight was 20kg, she's about 22kg fully grown and slightly chubby ie 20kg might still be a good target. I can feel her ribs easily but not see them (and she's got a short but thick coat), and she has a nice waist.

    I would vary the organs, but I don't feed stuff like liver unless I cook it well. Organs are extremely rich (high calorie, high fat), so they would not equate directly to something like chicken carcass.

    I know someone who had two curly coat retrievers and I think he fed them about 500gm of roo mince a day. Not sure what else.

    And I think I'd be including some veg with a meat diet. Eg raw carrots etc.

    The tinned dog food makes for incredibly room clearing farts. I prefer to make my own casserole. Much less potent. My dog always seems so surprised when she farts. Looks at her bottom like it isn't part of her.

  3. #3
    Villain & Flirtt's Avatar
    Villain & Flirtt is offline Independent of Thought
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Gippsland, Victoria
    Posts
    737

    Default

    As a 6 month old pup, Villain (Dobe) weighed in around 26kg. His daily menu looked like;

    Morning: RMBs (Raw Meaty Bone)- either chicken frame or lamb neck or ox tail or chicken neck or chicken/ turkey drumstick or combination of above to total of approx 400g

    Dinner: 5 nights per week- 'mince mix' made up of 500g meat (chicken or Roo or Lamb or Rabbit or Venison or Beef) plus 50g offal (mixed heart/liver/kidney) plus whole egg plus Vets All Natural (VAN) Complete Mix ( or homemade pulped fruit and veg) plus PetPepUp Probiotic plus VAN Omega Oil plus Greenpet Essentials supplement. 2 of these days included raw fish also.

    The other 2 nights were made up of;
    1 night; lamb shank (500g)
    1 night; prepackaged BARF (fish variety) ( this is what I call 'takeout' night)


    This kept him at a nice weight, and has reduced by about 1/3 (mince mix got smaller) now he is 3.

    Flirtt, on the other hand, at 2, weighing in at 30kg is still eating 1-1.2 kg per day (same menu as above) and though she is desexed, she is on the lean side.

    So, I guess the moral of the story is that though the percentages are a guide, be guided by your dog. If they are starting to bulk up, cut back... Or vice versa.

    I keep a chest freezer stocked with frozen meat, and only defrost as needed. Generally everything gets frozen on the day of collection (a friend butchers the meat the night before and delivers to me the next morning), but occasionally I buy RMBs direct from supermarket, and bring home for that night's dinner.

    I only use human grade meat.

    The use of veg and grains depends which school of thought you follow; true raw feeders, in my understanding eschew the use of grains. The 'Bruce Syme's followers use grains ect...

    It's alot of trial and error, but if I had to identify one rule, I think most would agree it is about providing quality, uncooked preservative free, food for your dog. I have no idea if I need all the supplements; I simply feed the diet I agreed to in Villain and Flirtt's contracts, and they are so healthy and vital, I see no need to change.

    As they get older, and need less, I might feed more prepacked BARF (my mom is a distributor for Big Dog BARF), but now I've got the hang of defrosting and preparing, it's no big hassle. You just need freezer space and a preparedness to cope with blood and raw stuff.

    I don't think I specifically answered any questions, but hope that's helpful :-)
    newfsie likes this.

  4. #4
    Kaer's Avatar
    Kaer is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Inner West Sydney
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Thanks for the replies!

    I recently found out that Milo likes tiny carrot pieces, so I use that as treats now.

    Luckily, I already have a lone standing freezer in the garage, now dominated by Milo's stash of chicken carcasses. So I'll have heaps of room for meat storage!

    From the research I've done, there wasn't a suggestion of adding supplements in their diet. Rather, it was just a rough quantity of 70-80% RMB, 10-20% bones and 5% organs, and the added little veges. Should I only start thinking about supplements after starting the diet and observing which likely nutrient he is missing?

  5. #5
    Hyacinth's Avatar
    Hyacinth is online now Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    9,781

    Default

    That research if you look at the numbers - 80 to 100% bones, some with meat on? Not sure about that one but I am not a dog nutritionist.

    I add calcium - but that's because my dog doesn't get bones much if at all. She also gets a fair bit of promite on toast - which has lots of vitamin B and the toast has whole wheat - vitamin E? If you feed a variety (ie not just meat and bones) - that should cover all the vitamins and minerals.

  6. #6
    Kaer's Avatar
    Kaer is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Inner West Sydney
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Promite is the same as Vegemite yeh?

    We feed Milo random bits of fruits and veges every now and then.. I hope that covers his nutrients.

    I told my dad of my plans to change his diet to raw, and he absolutely disagreed, saying that he will be more wild and will be more likely to bite someone from blood thirst. Also he said that "it doesn't make sense" that raw food is healthier with viruses and bacteria in it, despite me explaining several times that the stomach acids and immune system of dogs and humans are significantly different and freezing the meat will kill bacteria. So with such a strong disagreement and unwillingness of understanding... I might not end up switching him to raw =(

  7. #7
    Kaer's Avatar
    Kaer is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Inner West Sydney
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Sorry - just another question.

    I've bought whole chickens which are cut into quarters. Do I need to scrape out the organs and save it for later when introducing Milo to a raw diet?

  8. #8
    Bulldog_Lover's Avatar
    Bulldog_Lover is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,210

    Default

    When we get carcasses we give them to Ruby as is!
    Rubylisious


  9. #9
    Kaer's Avatar
    Kaer is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Inner West Sydney
    Posts
    164

    Default

    I've got chicken carcasses too! But I was told that it's not considered RMB... so I bought whole chickens instead. Just concerned about the organs being in there too which might be too rich for a raw starter.

  10. #10
    Di_dee1's Avatar
    Di_dee1 is offline Growing old disgracefully
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Rural NSW
    Posts
    5,928

    Default

    I can't help you with the ins and outs of raw and nutritional ratios needed.
    Just wanted to say wooohoooo. Just got 10kg of chicken carcasses for 8 bucks. I haven't bought them before, mainly wings and necks were bought. Downside of that is one of my 3 dogs still turns up her nose at it so will have to have a bone the nights I feed them.
    Gawd, just bought an upright 180 ltr freezer for the dogs and birds (freezing their seed, pellets prevents weevils) and the thing is now chockas.

    Are there any forums out there on raw feeding?
    Last edited by Di_dee1; 07-05-2011 at 04:51 PM.

    Any posts made under the name of Di_dee1 one can be used by anyone as I do not give a rats.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •