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Thread: Chicken Wings

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by leo01 View Post
    Well we each have our own opinions hey Im sticking by mine

    When it comes to veterinarians and raw foods, their formal education has
    short-changed them immensely. Just ask your own vet how much
    nutritional training he/she received in college. The average seems to
    be about 8 hours to two weeks (in 4 years of post-grad education). The
    training they do receive is typically administered by pet food
    nutritionists from companies like Hill's SD. So also ask your vet who
    taught the class and what they learned in there. Also, next time you
    visit a vet, just take a look around the office. What sort of products
    do you see? What is being promoted? What corporations are basically
    sponsoring this vet?

    Personally I have never seen or heard of an actual case of a dog needing to have surgery because they were fed chicken/or small bones but I have seen a dog recently as I menioned with a completly cracked canine tooth, so i stand by my own convictions

    Thats not to say i dont respect your beliefs, in actual fact reading through your post i generally whole heartedly agree with your responses, unfortunately just not in this circumstance.

    I also agree with this post .

    Our vet for many years was Ian Billinghurst ( yes the Ian Billinghurst who wrote the books ) He was one of the minority who realised that a dogs diet was not about feeding whats best for us humans .

    I have fed raw chicken always and will continue to do so,raw chicken bones , any raw bones for that matter , are digestible by a canine . It is cooked bone that causes drama.

    Also though , be aware that bones that have alot of marrow content can be upsetting to a dogs stomach and many will simply throw it up.It is too high in fat etc .

    Cooked bones however are a definate no
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo01 View Post
    Well we each have our own opinions hey Im sticking by mine

    When it comes to veterinarians and raw foods, their formal education has
    short-changed them immensely. Just ask your own vet how much
    nutritional training he/she received in college. The average seems to
    be about 8 hours to two weeks (in 4 years of post-grad education). The
    training they do receive is typically administered by pet food
    nutritionists from companies like Hill's SD. So also ask your vet who
    taught the class and what they learned in there. Also, next time you
    visit a vet, just take a look around the office. What sort of products
    do you see? What is being promoted? What corporations are basically
    sponsoring this vet?
    I agree, but I also said: And this is not coming from me, but from veterinarians and nutricionists. And some veterinarians, however do specialise in dog/cat nutrition. One of them I know personally, and value his opinion.

    Personally I have never seen or heard of an actual case of a dog needing to have surgery because they were fed chicken/or small bones but I have seen a dog recently as I menioned with a completly cracked canine tooth, so i stand by my own convictions
    I have. Quite a few. Starting with my own that once nearly choked with it, and another time had a bowel obstruction and bloody stool. Gave us quite a scare. Raw chicken bones both times. Dogs should not be fed bones daily. Bones are not food, although very calcium rich, if added into a meal, should be minced. A bone is just an eintertainment, once every fortnight a big juicy bone certanly won't damage any teeth (unless dog is so unfortunate to have some genetic teeth problem), but will keep palque away that's for sure.

    [/QUOTE]Thats not to say i dont respect your beliefs, in actual fact reading through your post i generally whole heartedly agree with your responses, unfortunately just not in this circumstance.[/QUOTE]

    fine by me NHF.

  3. #23

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    Yes, noticed you said nutritionist and didnt comment on that as TBH i have never actually been to a pet nutritionist and havent been as lucky to find a vet that has specialised in it (Few and far between I believe, in Sydney anyway it seems), so i have no experience with a nutritionist opinion of the situation.

    Many dogs I find do need to be taught how to eat raw food and chew them properly, Leo used to be such a scoffer and has scoffed a chicken wing before and scared me when he nearly chocked, but as its a matter of teaching your dog not to scoff its food. Saying that some just never learn and thus should not be feed whole foods. Many raw feeders will also tell you that its quite normal to see a small amount of blood in the stool, especially in the first few week of switching to a 100% raw diet. If everything else is normal (Dog is eat, drinking and passing stools regularly) is not anything to worry about and mearly means there is slight irritation and you should try adding more muscle meat to the diet. (You may be interested to check out raw feeding, raw pup, raw chat forum groups in Yahoo, not saying it will convince you otherwise nor am I trying to convince you otherwise but as you said you feed raw may be of interest ?)

    Anyhow, think we'll just have to say each to their own. All dogs are different and what works for one does’t always work for the next,

    Cheers

    BTW, whats NHF?

  4. #24

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    And yes, agree Choppa, COOKED BONES ARE A BIG NO NO! And yup, to much fat or marrow can also be bad and can cause loose stools and upset tummys. (As can to much organ meat) End of the day i think its all about balance, just like us really

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo01 View Post
    Many raw feeders will also tell you that its quite normal to see a small amount of blood in the stool, especially in the first few week of switching to a 100% raw diet.
    Well, no, I definetelly DO NOT agree that's normal. Wow! Whoever told you that is a complete ... won't say...
    Switching foods may result in diarrhea or constipation, if swithcing between dry foods scratching and flaky skin, but bloody stool would worry me as it means (obviously) that bones damaged intestine lining.

    I don't have to check up raw feeding, as I said I know a person who's profession is dog nutricionist and as well BARF producer, so I am quite up-to-date what dogs should and should not eat. I am not against bones in dog's diet, chicken feet (the bottom bit) are fine, wing tips too, cartliage, necks of course are regular in my dogs' diet, but any other bones, such as one you find in a drumstick are big no-no (unless minced), and there's nothing that will convince me otherwise for my dogs' sake.

    BTW, whats NHF?
    No Hard Feelings

  6. #26

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    Hmm, i do find that a bit close minded that you will only go off what the few poeple you know of say and are not even interested in gaining the wider opinions of others, but hey, each to there own as i say.

    It does not mean it is damaging the intestine lining at all, if fact it is mostly due to the fact that they are constipated and the blood is a result of the squeezing/clenching and straining of the anal canal due to the contipation, thus why adding more muscle helps to improve this. (And thus why it is important to follow the basic rules of prey model feeding, giving no more than 10-15% bone, not full meals of bone)

    Many many people feed chicken in all forms and have no issues so I wont be convinced otherwise either. Sorry

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo01 View Post
    Hmm, i do find that a bit close minded that you will only go off what the few poeple you know of say and are not even interested in gaining the wider opinions of others, but hey, each to there own as i say.
    No, in this case I certanly won't, and this opinion is not coming from one person (yes, one is vet/nutricionist, others are just vets). The other thing is my own personal experience that I have already mentioned earlier.

    It does not mean it is damaging the intestine lining at all, if fact it is mostly due to the fact that they are constipated and the blood is a result of the squeezing/clenching and straining of the anal canal due to the contipation, thus why adding more muscle helps to improve this.
    balanced diet shouldn't constipate nor give diarrhea. Maybe you should try eating some sharp stuff, I'm curious how would it feel when you passing it. Let me know when and if you try it Feeding chicken necks, catrtliage and similar hardens the stool enough as it is, minus blood which comes from damaged intestines. Tell me, when you bleed because you've scratched yourself, do you consider your skin damaged? I do.

    Many many people feed chicken in all forms and have no issues so I wont be convinced otherwise either. Sorry
    They certanly don't. Maybe you should ask their dogs.

    So yes, I'll feed my dogs with whatever I find appropriate, and you feed with whatever you like.
    Last edited by Fedra; 02-13-2009 at 08:33 PM.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedra View Post
    No, in this case I certanly won't, and this opinion is not coming from one person (yes, one is vet/nutricionist, others are just vets). The other thing is my own personal experience that I have already mentioned earlier.



    balanced diet shouldn't constipate nor give diarrhea. Maybe you should try eating some sharp stuff, I'm curious how would it feel when you passing it. Let me know when and if you try it Feeding chicken necks, catrtliage and similar hardens the stool enough as it is, minus blood which comes from damaged intestines. Tell me, when you bleed because you've scratched yourself, do you consider your skin damaged? I do.



    They certanly don't. Maybe you should ask their dogs.

    So yes, I'll feed my dogs with whatever I find appropriate, and you feed with whatever you like.
    Fedra, im not here to argue with you, and frankly i dont have time for it

    All im going to say is if you feel it is ok to give your dog dense beef knuckle bones that as you say she breaks through in minutes (and i presume is therefore swallowing some bone) but dont feel she is able to digest chicken bones, you do that.

    I agree that a balanced diet shouldn't constipate nor give diarrhoea, but it does happen sometimes doesnt it (In people to and infact all species of animals) thus why i has said some quantity adjustment in the meats feed is in order.

    Its a forum and i was simply pointing out to other members that not alot of people I KNOW would agree with this practice (Thus why i recommended raw feed group in yahoo) Congratulations on knowing a nutritionist, i myself am in regular contact with many raw feeders who would not agree, including my uncle who has raw feed his dogs for over 25yrs, My OH's parents who have raised and breed persian cats on a raw diet (Yes, Including chicken wings) and not to mention many family/friends that i know who have raw feed from any where between 0-9yrs (And yes, they feed RAW chicken BONES) Plus multiple forums which i am a member off in which this topic is regularly discussed. As I said I don’t rate vets to highly on the subject of raw feeding, as many are just promoting their own brands for profit and for this reason most will not advocate a raw diet (Why would they? Promoting raw is a loss of $ for them basically)

    Thats my last word on the subject, i will longer be wasting my time replying to this post. If you have anything further you feel you can educate me with please feel free to PM me

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo01 View Post
    Fedra, im not here to argue with you, and frankly i dont have time for it
    I'm sorry you feel so annoyed with me , but what are forums for then to exchange opinions, and, yes, argue sometimes. My god! I really didn't mean to offend you or anything like that! haha I can believe you can get so cranky because someone has different opinion! How childish!

    All im going to say is if you feel it is ok to give your dog dense beef knuckle bones that as you say she breaks through in minutes (and i presume is therefore swallowing some bone) but dont feel she is able to digest chicken bones, you do that.
    I did not say that! I said that my dog can break some bones in minute, but if you chose the right one, she can't. If you chose a big bone with lots of cartliage, and al, the chewy stuff, she can't. Also, I never give my dog any bones without supervision, so if and when I see she's cracked the bone - the bone goes, or the cracked bit for that matter.

    My OH's parents who have raised and breed persian cats on a raw diet (Yes, Including chicken wings)
    Hey, I'm sorry, but did I ever say NOT to feed wings??? Hello! Can you please read carefully next time before you decide to attack me?

    Thats my last word on the subject, i will longer be wasting my time replying to this post. If you have anything further you feel you can educate me with please feel free to PM me
    good for you. And no, I won't waste my time on writing you PMs. As I said, do whatever you like.
    Last edited by Fedra; 02-16-2009 at 08:01 PM.

  10. #30

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    OK guys , I think we've established that we'll all just agree to disagree
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