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Thread: The APBT, Breed Specific Legislation, and research (ricey's new thread)

  1. #21
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    Here's a fact about the APBT and no research is needed - The R$PCA does not Re-home APBTs and any crosses of this breed and they never have as they claim APBTs are not suitable as Family pets.

    In 2004 here in Sydney a young Pitbull by the name of Clifford who had done nothing wrong was thrown from a car and suffered serious injuries, he was taken to the R$PCA. The R$PCA conducted this huge campaign "save poor Clifford, help him recover make a donation give as much as you can" or words to that effect.

    The R$PCA raised $3500 to help poor Clifford, then suddenly several weeks released a statement saying that Clifford had turned aggressive and was put to sleep (how convenient) and of cause made a tidy little profit for themselves. Knowing what their policy was they still deceived the public and got away with it and killed an innocent dog who's only crime was being a pitbull and falling into the hands of the R$PCA. Shame, Shame, shame R$PCA.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
    Here's a fact about the APBT and no research is needed - The R$PCA does not Re-home APBTs and any crosses of this breed and they never have as they claim APBTs are not suitable as Family pets.

    In 2004 here in Sydney a young Pitbull by the name of Clifford who had done nothing wrong was thrown from a car and suffered serious injuries, he was taken to the R$PCA. The R$PCA conducted this huge campaign "save poor Clifford, help him recover make a donation give as much as you can" or words to that effect.

    The R$PCA raised $3500 to help poor Clifford, then suddenly several weeks released a statement saying that Clifford had turned aggressive and was put to sleep (how convenient) and of cause made a tidy little profit for themselves. Knowing what their policy was they still deceived the public and got away with it and killed an innocent dog who's only crime was being a pitbull and falling into the hands of the R$PCA. Shame, Shame, shame R$PCA.
    Yes, that is all true and in this instance (and many others) the behaviour of the RSPCA was despicable.

    However, over here in WA the RSPCA has been quietly renaming the rescue APBTs at their Malaga facility as 'staffy/lab' or AmStaff crosses and rehoming them. More to the point, the curent national president of the RSPCA (Lynne Bradshaw) who successfully opposed the then RSPCA president Hugh Wirth in 2006, has made a point of opposing breed specific legislation.

    The RSPCA now has a stated national policy to oppose breed specific legislation as it does not work. Even Hugh Wirth (who can be considered to be the driving force behind all of the current breed specific legislation in Australia) has recanted from his indefensible position

    ASHLEY HALL: Now you're on the record as being an advocate for breeding out American Pit Bulls, for example, what's brought your change of heart?

    HUGH WIRTH: Well, I've kept up to date with veterinary research, behavioural research on dogs.

    What I believed years ago, when I made those statements, as pertinent to the RSPCA, was the common approach that even the veterinary profession was using.

    Now that this research has been done and it's quite widespread, we've discovered that our understanding of dogs and their behaviour was completely wrong.
    Read the whole thing here:

    PM - Vets call for end to dangerous dog breed bans 14/08/2012

    The thing is, if you research this issue, if you delve into it beyond the lowest common denominator pulp press articles, we all have to arrive at the same conclusion. Breed specific legislation does not work to reduce dog bites or attacks; it never has and it never will. There is no evidence to support BSL and I invite anyone to show evidence here that it does. Dogman, you and I are on the same page when it comes to BSL, but the RSPCA is changing for the better since 2006. When Lynne Bradshaw became the national president for the RSPCA in 2006, I listened to what she had to say, swallowed my pride, and became an RSPCA member. I don't have a problem with changing my stated views when the evidence suggests that I should. I think the RSPCA is a changed organisation.

    While the RSPCA has (historically) pit bull blood on its hands, they are now taking a different and more enlightened path. 7 years ago, if any of my APBT friends had said that I would some day be defending the RSPCA for their pro pit bull stance, I'd have just laughed and asked what drugs were they on. But that is where the RSPCA is now, nationally (enlightened that is, not taking drugs LOL).

    Cheers,

    ricey
    Last edited by ricey; 01-13-2013 at 09:39 PM. Reason: spelling (as usual)
    The APBT is the best of the best dogs (but it is just a dog, like any other breed of dog)

    My avatar? It's a pit bull in a poodle suit (a bit like me really)

  3. #23
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    For the record, Ricey, I'm here reading as well. Dont be put off by the lack of reply posts!

  4. #24
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    Can I make this comment? If not, I'm happy for you to delete it

    I went to a BSL rally last year in Melbourne (Parliament house), organisaed by Brad Griggs (Canine Services International Dog Training Melbourne Australia Dog Behaviourist - Dog Trainer Dog Behaviourist Educational Programs Dog Bite Prevention Training) and promoted/sponsored by NDTF (National Dog Trainers Federation) and they had a guest speaker (among others like Dr. Robert Holmes - Welcome to Animal Behaviour Clinics) who is a Victorian Attorney (can't remember his name) that deals specifically with dog related injury cases. He said out of the hundreds of cases in his career, he has only ever had two (2) pit bull cases and the more common cases were relating to Golden Retrievers and SWF's.

    While Melbourne has a limited number of APBT in there confines, it does show that there are many dogs that AREN'T APBT breed that are doing as much damage, causing injury and/or death, to people.

    I'm sorry, I don't have a journal to reference, just reputable sources.

  5. #25
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    Ricey

    Sorry to go a little off topic but leopards don't change their spots, I would never trust the R$PCA regardless of what they say. What about their Temperament test, if a pup chases a ball - Kill, If a pup play-bites - Kill, It a doll dressed like a child is shoved in front of a terrified dog and the dog barks - Kill and if the dog is a certain breed and the R$PCA doesn't like it - Kill. All of these so called temp tests were shown on that stupid R$PCA rescue show.

    Since you mentioned Hugh Wirthless, what about his famous rants - When ask what do you think about APBTs and Rottweilers, Wirthless said "Kill, kill, kill them all". When asked about Rotties and kids, Wirthless said "What young family in their right mind would want a Rottweiler".
    Another gem, Wirthless also said "People who don't walk their dogs should be jailed, it should be policed".
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
    Ricey

    Sorry to go a little off topic but leopards don't change their spots, I would never trust the R$PCA regardless of what they say. What about their Temperament test, if a pup chases a ball - Kill, If a pup play-bites - Kill, It a doll dressed like a child is shoved in front of a terrified dog and the dog barks - Kill and if the dog is a certain breed and the R$PCA doesn't like it - Kill. All of these so called temp tests were shown on that stupid R$PCA rescue show.

    Since you mentioned Hugh Wirthless, what about his famous rants - When ask what do you think about APBTs and Rottweilers, Wirthless said "Kill, kill, kill them all". When asked about Rotties and kids, Wirthless said "What young family in their right mind would want a Rottweiler".
    Another gem, Wirthless also said "People who don't walk their dogs should be jailed, it should be policed".
    Hi Dogman,

    I'd be the first to admit that Hugh Wirth has more than just a couple of kangaroos loose in his top paddock. He has a long and well documented history of shooting from the lip.

    But Hugh Wirth is not the RSPCA, especially not now. I remember very well the whole sad and sorry Clifford affair. It still makes me sick. But the RSPCA in NSW and in Victoria are not the total of the RSPCA in Australia. Neither is the RSPCA in Queensland, although they do have an inspector who is rabidly anti pit bull (I can't remember his name).

    Lynne Bradshaw has been interviewed by the press many times and her position (and the position of the RSPCA in recent times) has been consistent- BSL does not work and the RSPCA opposes BSL. In addition, the RSPCA and Lynne Bradshaw want individual dog owners to become more legally responsible for the actions of their dogs. I don't have an issue with that.

    A friend of mine who still has a breeding pair of papered American Pit bull Terriers here in WA (shsssh you didn't hear that from me) has had many conversations with Lynne Bradshaw and this friend is totally convinced of Lynne Bradshaws integrity and commitment. While I accept that this is nothing like factual proof that the RSPCA has changed its spots, I would suggest that their stated position has changed markedly, and for the better.

    As it stands now, both the Australian Veterinary Association and the RSPCA have made very strong position statements against BSL. The AVA and the RSPCA are widely regarded in Australia as organisations that have the best interests of animals (and their owners) at heart. Both are seen as "stake holders" and both are considered to be organisations that are well respected (at least by the general population). Because the public respects them, politicians begrudgingly tend to listen to them. My personal take on all this is that it is great that they have stated that BSL doesn't work and we are all on the same page.

    The RSPCA here in WA goes about its business quietly; most times I look at its dogs for rehoming pages I see American Pit Bull Terriers but they are called "staffy/lab" or "AmStaff cross/mastiff". Another friend of mine runs the WA RSPCA dog training courses and does the temperament testing here. She proudly says that she has never failed a pit bull for its temperament.

    all the best,

    ricey
    The APBT is the best of the best dogs (but it is just a dog, like any other breed of dog)

    My avatar? It's a pit bull in a poodle suit (a bit like me really)

  7. #27
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    Leopards don't change their spots and because of the R$PCA we have BSL and that's a Fact.



    RSPCA criticised over claims test to decide fate of dogs is misused | Parkes Champion-Post

    RSPCA - What They Don't Want You To Know... - YouTube

    MP backs RSPCA over use of controversial 'kill tests'

    Farmers concerned RSPCA has priorities wrong - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    RSPCA cops a serve over two dead dogs

    My new GSD girl pictured below would have been killed if surrendered to the R$PCA because she play-bites, chases balls and jumps up..
    Last edited by Dogman; 01-15-2013 at 06:21 PM.
    Chloe & Zorro
    Rottweilers and German Shepherds are Family

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
    Leopards don't change their spots and because of the R$PCA we have BSL and that's a Fact.



    RSPCA criticised over claims test to decide fate of dogs is misused | Parkes Champion-Post

    RSPCA - What They Don't Want You To Know... - YouTube

    MP backs RSPCA over use of controversial 'kill tests'

    Farmers concerned RSPCA has priorities wrong - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

    RSPCA cops a serve over two dead dogs

    My new GSD girl pictured below would have been killed if surrendered to the R$PCA because she play-bites, chases balls and jumps up..
    Hi Dogman,

    The sites you post are in the majority all about the RSPCA in NSW and perhaps there is a problem with the NSW RSPCA. However, there is always two sides to an arguement and I'd like to hear the RSPCA's official response (not just the brief stuff reported in a few of the articles you posted). As for the youtube video 'RSPCA What they don't want you to know', I'd have to say it was just a load of emotive crap that really does not give the viewer any real factual information.

    My stand is that the RSPCA has nationally and officially changed its spots; if the RSPCA in NSW are not rising to the occasion then they need to be brought to account. I'm here in WA and I can't do very much to get that done. Nationally, and certainly here in WA, the RSPCA has changed for the better.

    Here's a link to the WA RSPCA dogs available for adoption site (the first page is full of 'pit bull type' dogs that would never be considered as suitable for rehoming in reactionary NSW or Victoria):

    Animal Search Results

    So I guess the RSPCA is not consistent across state borders.

    Cheers,

    ricey
    Last edited by ricey; 01-16-2013 at 02:04 AM.
    The APBT is the best of the best dogs (but it is just a dog, like any other breed of dog)

    My avatar? It's a pit bull in a poodle suit (a bit like me really)

  9. #29
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    Hey, the WA RSPCA even list one of their adoptable dogs as a 'pit bull cross'

    Animal Details Animals&statusID=3&pagesize=16&task=view&tpage=16& animalid=280251

    ricey
    The APBT is the best of the best dogs (but it is just a dog, like any other breed of dog)

    My avatar? It's a pit bull in a poodle suit (a bit like me really)

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogman View Post

    My new GSD girl pictured below would have been killed if surrendered to the R$PCA because she play-bites, chases balls and jumps up..
    I got both my dogs from the RSPCA after they were surrendered, they both play-bite and jump up and one is ball obsessed while the other was extremely sick, emaciated and aggressive towards human males. Yet they were both given a chance.

    You must remember that the RSPCA does not have never-ending dog keeping facilities and most the time they can only take in a limited number of dogs, it's in their best interest, and future dogs best interests that they fill their shelters with the most 'likeable' animals so they can have a higher turnover rate and thus give more animals a second chance. Don't get me wrong, I love all dog breeds and have nothing against pit bulls and disagree with BSL, but some breeds are just not as 'popular' as others so in the time it takes to rehome one pit bull or rotti (I love them but they just aren't as well received by the public as labs, spaniels etc), they could rehome two or three of the more 'popular' breeds, I have a tendency to browse the RSPCA rescue site daily and see it happen quite often.
    All of us would love to save every abandoned, abused, mistreated, sick and homeless animal we came across, including the RSPCA, but unfortunately it is just not possible. So if you were in the same situation as the RSPCA , what 'system' would you use to decide who gets to stay and who has to go?

    Everyone has their own opinions, but the way I see it, the local RSPCA has given both my dogs a second chance as well as a lot of the dogs we play with at the park, so in my eyes, they've made a positive difference. What's that saying you hear a lot of people say? "As long as I've made a difference to one life, it's all worth it" ?

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