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Thread: OMG my next door neighbor has bought a red nosed pit bull!!!!

  1. #21
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    It's probably a labrador - I've seen some of them with red noses too.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    I don't know where you got the impression that PBTs are less trustworthy with kids than other dogs? These dogs used to be called "nanny dogs" for god's sake!
    I got the impression from pit bull websites, most of which admit they are not trustworthy with other dogs. And the name means nothing - it's even possible they were called "nanny dogs" to offset their poor reputation. I'm not trying to argue that there are no nice pitbulls, or that they are all bad. I don't think in black and white like that. I am aware that there will be docile, friendly, safe pitbulls.

    What I am saying is that they are MORE LIKELY to display certain behaviour - out of a sample population of 1000 pitbulls, it's very likely that a higher proportion of them will be classified as "dangerous" compared to a sample of 1000 staffies or boxers or labradors or weimaraners or beagles. Part of this is due to their size and power. Part of it is due to their history as a breed and how each breeding pair has been selected. Part of it would be the type of people who own them and how they are raised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    And you can never trust any dog not to fight!
    Why not? I'd trust most of the dogs I know not to fight. I'd trust a few of them with small children 6 years old and over. Generally speaking, most dogs will do whatever they can to avoid a fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beloz View Post
    Your opinion does not at all seem based on facts. Which kind of surprises me from you, to be honest.
    My opinion is based on the fact that the pitbull is a fighting breed. Breeds that are designed to fight and guard, are more likely to be territorial and aggressive. I've seen a lot of emotional arguments that pitbulls are the most wonderful dogs ever, and the opposing view that they are the most dangerous and vicious dogs, but none of these arguments have convinced me.

    As far as I'm concerned they are a powerful breed that, like many other breeds, are prone to aggressive behaviour, require more effort to keep them balanced, and are less likely to make good house pets. The difference is that all the dogs that are rated as more aggressive than the pitbull, are smaller and less powerful. The dacshund is rated as number 1 most aggressive, but I would rather be attacked by a dacshund for obvious reasons. Tellingly, while they are not rated as the most aggressive dogs, the pitbull and rottweiler are most likely to kill people, being responsible for nearly 70% of dog bite fatalities or about a third each. It's pretty solid evidence that you're more likely to die if attacked by either of these breeds, while if you're attacked by a dacshund or border collie you're only going to be moderately injured.

    This popular opinion everyone seems to have that powerful fighting breeds like Pitbulls are no different to any other breed seems to be based on emotion, not facts and reality. We know that dogs are bred for different purposes. We know that a dog bred for a particular purpose is more likely to try to fulfill that purpose. We know that some breeds make better house pets than others. We have no problem acknowledging that breeds like greyhounds are more likely to chase things, bulldogs are more likely to be stubborn, jack russells are more likely to be bossy and fearless, mini poodles are more likely to be highly strung, etc etc. So why the resistance and denial when it comes to acknowledging that a dog bred for fighting and guarding is more likely to be aggressive? It's unrealistic to only attribute positive characteristics to breeds without also acknowledging the negative characteristics.

    I just don't get the attitude that every breed is prone to breed behavior EXCEPT the breeds that are designed and selected for guarding and fighting. It all seems very emotional and illogical to me.

  3. #23

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    Hi Mosh,

    You do of course realise that the APBT was bred from the SBT and hence their natures/temperaments etc are almost identical? All of the pitbull breeds(SBT, AST and APBT - possibly also the bull terrier but i can't give a life based opinion of them) have the potential to be dog aggressive, but almost all of them can be socialised to avoid this. The nanny dog tag was earned and from my experience i would trust a pitbull breed with kids over ANY other breed(of course after getting to know the individual dog)

    Also your stat of 70% of fatalities being caused by either APBT or rottweilers seems a little wrong IMO. Of 33 dog attack fatalities since 1979, only two were caused by "pitbulls" or their crosses, including the tragic death last year

    Don't forget when you talk of aggressiveness of "pitbulls" that all three pitbull breeds were selectively bred over many years to be absolutely non-human aggressive

  4. #24
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    If they are not good leaders it can spell disaster. A pitbull is not just a dog like every either. Neither is a german shepherd, kelpie, rottweiler, jack russel, pomeranian etc. All the breeds are DIFFERENT and require different sets of knowledge, skill level and leadership to get the same end result. Most bull breeds are big powerful dogs that require heavy socialisation especially around small animals and other dogs. THat is a fact. Just like most guarding breeds require a good dose of socialisation with how to act around strangers. I think have a talk with them and at least let them know the laws in NSW regarding restricted breed dogs, and that the breed they have chosen requires a dedicated owner who is willing to learn and listen to professionals in order to pretty much guarentee turning out a good dog. Be nice about it they may genuinely not know considering how many idiots are flouting the laws in these states and still breeding openly getting a LOT of owners into trouble. Conversely show them American Staffordshire Terrier breeders registered with the ANKC, they can find a good breeder, good healthy puppy and at least have papers showing it's not an APBT.

  5. #25

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    heres a web site on pits Truth about Pit Bull Terriers, Training Help, Pictures, Resources | PitBulls
    if you think that there dangros you have been fed by the news and all that shi* its time for you to walk in there paws and owners shoes thay are softer then you think and you juged the dog by its breed the news has fed you not by all the love that was put in the dog by loving caring owners there are no bad dogs olny bad owners

    and we all know that the news lies to get the most people to whac it and thats not rigth thay need to start telling the truth
    If you are reading this then you're doing just fine as to
    I'm not going to tell ya I lost the ' , . ? ! " Keys to my head
    No grammar no problem I don't know how to fly it any way Bye

  6. #26
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    Tellingly, while they are not rated as the most aggressive dogs, the pitbull and rottweiler are most likely to kill people, being responsible for nearly 70% of dog bite fatalities or about a third each.
    Would this stat be from the same place that has the number one cause of broken bones - being gun shot wounds? It's not a true stat for Australia.

    I agree with Nekhbet about the breed specific management needs.

    I disagree with the Victorian Government that thinks that powerful dog breeds should be banned because idiots like to own them. And I don't think you can tell which dogs are aggressive (by nurture or nature or neither) just by the way they look. It's nuts. If they keep it up they will be like Italy and ban every pet but gold fish. And those will get banned too for damage to waterways.

  7. #27
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    It is always hard not to react emotionally when the 'other side' acts downright hysterically. I do acknowledge that.

    And PBTs are probably more likely to be dog aggressive IF they don't get the required socialisation and then can indeed do more damage than some other breeds. Which admittedly would not make them ideal pets for the inexperienced or the very lazy.

    I just don't believe that they are more prone to attacking people... I've just never heard or read any proof of that.

    I would also say that their reputation makes them best suited for the experienced enthusiast. I definitely wanted a dog that looked less threatening to some people than my first one, because managing other people's negative perception of my dog is an extra hassle I wanted to avoid. Mind you, my previous dog ignored most people and now I have one who loves people so much she'll make little kids cry and old ladies panic with her boisterous affection!

    I think I did react quite badly to the 'OMG a PITBULL!' which made it sound like they just contracted ebola. Doesn't sound ideal if they really are that clueless but it's hard to judge just from that post.

  8. #28
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    Based on my experience, being in dogs for years, member and instructor of obedience club, kennel attendant the SBT and APBT and Bull Breed X's are very different in personality.

    I look after lots of SBT and many are dog aggressive, only one and he was a X was labelled human aggressive.

    In the three different kennels I worked in no SBT, Bull Terrier, APBT or Bull Breed X is mingled with any other dog once it reaches 9 months of age. It's a blanket rule based on our experience. Sure we have other breeds of dogs that the owners have identified as being dog aggressive & they are labelled not to be exercised ing groups, but even if an owner regularly takes their SBT, APBT or Bull Breed X to the local leash free park over 9 months of age it doesn't mingle in the exercise yard with any other dog even under supervision.

    We have not had one single APBT handle the stress of the kennel environment, most are going well to handle the stress of the office while signing in. Most are acknowledged by their owner as being aggressive, which we can diagnose very quickly as fear based.

    I do know a couple of lovely APBT, one of which is a lovely girl who is owned and spends her day in her owners acquarium shop behind the counter. She goes to the dog park and is a beautiful girl, a bit food aggressive with treats being handed out at the dog park and her owner now knows how to handle that. But I've never seen her under stress.

    Many dogs have a huge amount of power to do damage when they react the same way as a less powerful breed. I speak to many Amstaff breeders and owners and they all admit their dog may not start the fight but they will finish it. Not all breeds are like that. Power and the tenacity of a terrier, is a combination that requires careful breeding and good ownership. How do we ensure good ownership?

    I've got nothing against the dog itself but who exactly do you trust to sell a pup to? Who do you trust to breed the dog? The APBT does not have a 'labrador' personality as we call it in dog breeding, I look for it myself in my Whippets, it's hard to find because because they are simply not labradors.
    Last edited by MAC; 09-06-2012 at 08:10 AM.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosh View Post
    I got the impression from pit bull websites, most of which admit they are not trustworthy with other dogs. And the name means nothing - it's even possible they were called "nanny dogs" to offset their poor reputation. I'm not trying to argue that there are no nice pitbulls, or that they are all bad. I don't think in black and white like that. I am aware that there will be docile, friendly, safe pitbulls.

    What I am saying is that they are MORE LIKELY to display certain behaviour - out of a sample population of 1000 pitbulls, it's very likely that a higher proportion of them will be classified as "dangerous" compared to a sample of 1000 staffies or boxers or labradors or weimaraners or beagles. Part of this is due to their size and power. Part of it is due to their history as a breed and how each breeding pair has been selected. Part of it would be the type of people who own them and how they are raised.


    Why not? I'd trust most of the dogs I know not to fight. I'd trust a few of them with small children 6 years old and over. Generally speaking, most dogs will do whatever they can to avoid a fight.


    My opinion is based on the fact that the pitbull is a fighting breed. Breeds that are designed to fight and guard, are more likely to be territorial and aggressive. I've seen a lot of emotional arguments that pitbulls are the most wonderful dogs ever, and the opposing view that they are the most dangerous and vicious dogs, but none of these arguments have convinced me.

    As far as I'm concerned they are a powerful breed that, like many other breeds, are prone to aggressive behaviour, require more effort to keep them balanced, and are less likely to make good house pets. The difference is that all the dogs that are rated as more aggressive than the pitbull, are smaller and less powerful. The dacshund is rated as number 1 most aggressive, but I would rather be attacked by a dacshund for obvious reasons. Tellingly, while they are not rated as the most aggressive dogs, the pitbull and rottweiler are most likely to kill people, being responsible for nearly 70% of dog bite fatalities or about a third each. It's pretty solid evidence that you're more likely to die if attacked by either of these breeds, while if you're attacked by a dacshund or border collie you're only going to be moderately injured.

    This popular opinion everyone seems to have that powerful fighting breeds like Pitbulls are no different to any other breed seems to be based on emotion, not facts and reality. We know that dogs are bred for different purposes. We know that a dog bred for a particular purpose is more likely to try to fulfill that purpose. We know that some breeds make better house pets than others. We have no problem acknowledging that breeds like greyhounds are more likely to chase things, bulldogs are more likely to be stubborn, jack russells are more likely to be bossy and fearless, mini poodles are more likely to be highly strung, etc etc. So why the resistance and denial when it comes to acknowledging that a dog bred for fighting and guarding is more likely to be aggressive? It's unrealistic to only attribute positive characteristics to breeds without also acknowledging the negative characteristics.

    I just don't get the attitude that every breed is prone to breed behavior EXCEPT the breeds that are designed and selected for guarding and fighting. It all seems very emotional and illogical to me.
    Mosh - you must not forget the ancestry of APBT and remember AKC registry changed the name of APBT to ASBT
    In addition, you saying that you must show apprehension towards GSD/Rott and other guard dog, also bully breeds?
    I think what will convince you is more reading about the breed (mostly this time of age), learning more about the breeds
    and I highly suggest try to foster one (do not foster red-line cases)

    but I must agree in some of your points like "requires more effort to keep them balance" this is true and not for novice owners

    note to everyone I think made our points about APBT breed and its ancestry, in addition we are now taking away the fact that
    OP is seeking for an advise what needs to be done - I didn't like the way it was written, however if this is the way she feels then
    so be it.

    to OP - as I posted earlier - Try to talk to them and ask much questions as you can like

    1. are they capable of raising a powerful breed?
    2. can they dedicate time for the dog?
    3. Are they planning to attend schools, obedience training and socialize the dogs
    4. Advise them to read about the breed , forums like this and seek of other advise from experienced people
    and other questions that you can think off.

    Do this first then come back to the forum tell us how you'd go

    With regards of the NSW legislation about dangerous dog, this was posted already. I also suggest to check your
    local council policies. Advice your neighbour about this as well. GOODLUCK
    m<(o.o)>m

  10. #30
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    RE: "requires more effort to keep them balance" this is true and not for novice owners

    More effort than what? how are you measuring this?
    More exercise? more training? more than the family down the road who have dogs as garden ornaments, and dont take it out. More than walks daily on leash around the housing estate? More than show dogs, more than obedience?


    And some people are great with timing of rewards, and dog congruent calming behaviours naturally, so can be novice and brilliant!

    I dont agree they are different. And for these 2 neighbours, they dont have kids, this is the practice child. Maybe one of them has had really good exposure to a pit bull so for them, its not scary, so no need to cower away from touching it, as they do your breeds. Who knows? Maybe the dog will cause the couple to split up? practice children in any breed are for novices. In reality anyhow.

    I do believe that bad breeding is dangerous. I also believe that bad breeding is what causes most problems. The wrong traits being bred back in, the good traits not being drawn forward. Illegal dogs, can only be BYB. Hence we'll see some really crap ones now.
    Last edited by bernie; 09-06-2012 at 02:03 PM.

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