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Thread: OMG my next door neighbor has bought a red nosed pit bull!!!!

  1. #211
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    Ok, it looks like while I was editing my post to try for some sort of reconciliation and compromise with Mosh, Mosh was busily writing the lengthy response above.

    I have tried to argue by presenting the facts as proven by scientific research; Mosh has responded in the manner they have chosen.

    The points I have made are from evidence based research; I really can't do more than just describe those facts that have been scientifically proven.

    Regards,

    ricey
    The APBT is the best of the best dogs (but it is just a dog, like any other breed of dog)

    My avatar? It's a pit bull in a poodle suit (a bit like me really)

  2. #212
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    Lol Ricey I honestly wouldn't bother if I were you! Mosh doesn't want to listen to anything other than what Mosh has to say, they will probably never come around. Meh it is their loss, they get to miss out on lovely bully kisses!

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadielee87 View Post
    Lol Ricey I honestly wouldn't bother if I were you! Mosh doesn't want to listen to anything other than what Mosh has to say, they will probably never come around. Meh it is their loss, they get to miss out on lovely bully kisses!
    Hi jadielee,

    The stupid thing about all this is that I have no problems about restrictions on what is considered to be acceptable behaviour by dogs and their owners. We all have ensure to that we are responsible owners and we all have to be responsible for our dog's behaviour. This is what is required of us by the relevant dog acts in our individual states and territories and is generally considered to be a good thing.

    However, singling out one or two breeds and targeting them for eradication really gets me onto the front foot, as individual dogs of all breeds can and have either bitten or killed humans. That is dogs from ALL breeds and whereas they may be more rottweilers or bull mastiffs involved proportionately responsible (for example) it does not mean that owners of newfies and neapolitan mastiffs (again for example) should have any less responsility to ensure their dog's behaviour is acceptable.

    The resonsibilities of a dog owner should be the same; the breed is irrelevant and to state that the breed should be the first consideration is just simplistic nonsense. We all should have the same responsibilies and restrictions. Perhaps some individual dog owners of some individual dogs are required by necessity to be more vigilant in this regard than owners of other individual dogs, but our responsibilities are the same: ensure that your dog is safe and behaves well.

    Anyway, my apologies for spouting this stuff as I realise that I am preaching to choir. I also realise that in other circles I have been pissing in the wind and just wasting my time.

    cheers,

    ricey
    The APBT is the best of the best dogs (but it is just a dog, like any other breed of dog)

    My avatar? It's a pit bull in a poodle suit (a bit like me really)

  4. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadielee87 View Post
    Lol Ricey I honestly wouldn't bother if I were you! Mosh doesn't want to listen to anything other than what Mosh has to say, they will probably never come around. Meh it is their loss, they get to miss out on lovely bully kisses!
    Mosh is listening to what pitbull websites are saying. Strangely enough they are not saying the same thing as ricey. Are all those pitbull lovers wrong?

  5. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricey
    However, singling out one or two breeds and targeting them for eradication really gets me onto the front foot, as individual dogs of all breeds can and have either bitten or killed humans.
    That's why the entire system needs to be shaken up and heavy restrictions placed on all breeders to force them into (a) reducing the number of dogs they produce and (b) making sure they only sell to responsible people. There are far too many dogs in Australia, the shelters are bursting at the seams, and there are far too many powerful breeds being bought and then disposed of by people who don't have a clue how to handle them. Breed specific legislation with a goal to eradicate certain breeds is stupid and harmful to society. Restrictions and monitoring of breeders of all breeds should be the norm.

    We make people have licences in order to drive a car, we should be doing the same thing for owners of powerful predator animals. A dog is not a low-maintenance accessory pet and legislation should reflect this.
    Last edited by Mosh; 12-20-2012 at 07:57 PM.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosh View Post
    Mosh is listening to what pitbull websites are saying. Strangely enough they are not saying the same thing as ricey. Are all those pitbull lovers wrong?
    I'd suggest that Mosh is not listening; Mosh is exploring their inner self

    The thing that you don't get Mosh is that targeting individual dog breeds and stating (over and over and over again, ad infinitum) that owners of a particular breed some how should have more responsibility than owners of other breeds is just wrong headed.

    So, if a Hungarian puli attacks and kills a basenji, thats OK because it is a Hungarian puli. But if it was an American Pit Bull Terrier, thats not OK? So if an American Pit Bull Terrier attacks and severely disfigures the child, that is really bad. But if it was a kelpie, that is OK?

    Are you not able to see the flaws in your logic?

    Or are you so involved in exploring your inner self that you are not able to see anything? Drop me a PM and I'll explain what 'exploring your inner self' means.

    Cheers,

    ricey
    Last edited by ricey; 12-20-2012 at 07:55 PM. Reason: spelling
    The APBT is the best of the best dogs (but it is just a dog, like any other breed of dog)

    My avatar? It's a pit bull in a poodle suit (a bit like me really)

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosh View Post
    That's why the entire system needs to be shaken up and heavy restrictions placed on all breeders to force them into (a) reducing the number of dogs they produce and (b) making sure they only sell to responsible people. There are far too many dogs in Australia, the shelters are bursting at the seams, and there are far too many powerful breeds being bought and then disposed of by people who don't have a clue how to handle them. Breed specific legislation with a goal to eradicate certain breeds is stupid and harmful to society. Restrictions and monitoring of breeders of all breeds should be the norm.
    Finally, Mosh and I are on the same page! Yay! I have no problem with anything that Mosh has said here.

    Mosh, I really hope that both of us can go forward from here. I genuinely accept every point you make in this post.
    Cheers,
    ricey
    Last edited by ricey; 12-20-2012 at 08:15 PM. Reason: spelling (as usual; I should proof read before posting)
    The APBT is the best of the best dogs (but it is just a dog, like any other breed of dog)

    My avatar? It's a pit bull in a poodle suit (a bit like me really)

  8. #218
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    It is an interesting discussion, but I think we are confusing 2 separate issues. There is the perception that pitbulls are more prone to attacking people, which is usually the driver behind people asking for breed restrictions. And that is what that AVA document (which is very interesting indeed) is mainly about. Even though most dangerous dog legislation does include criteria relating to aggression towards other animals.

    But Mosh has been talking primarily about dog to dog aggression. That AVA report kind of glosses over the issue. It does mention that the APTB comes second in relation to dog-dog aggression in some stats I believe, after the Akita. And that 22% of APTB owners in a survey reported that their dog had bitten or tried to bite another dog.

    Now it is very plausible that this is caused by the fact that more APTBs are owned by irresponsible owners, as is mentioned in that report too. But I don't know if any detailed studies have been done on this. Lots of dog attacks go unreported which gives a very distorted view.

  9. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricey View Post
    I'd suggest that Mosh is not listening; Mosh is exploring their inner self

    The thing that you don't get Mosh is that targeting individual dog breeds and stating (over and over and over again, ad infinitum) that owners of a particular breed some how should have more responsibility than owners of other breeds is just wrong headed.
    Some owners should have more responsibility than other owners because you take on different types of responsibility with different breeds. I would have thought this would be glaringly obvious.

    If a chihuahua somehow manages to kill a 12 year old child, and in the next town over a rottweiler does the same thing. Lets say both dogs were not exercised properly, were poorly socialized, and were not taught bite inhibition. Should both owners be treated the same? Of course they shouldn't, that would be absurd. Although both dogs are known for aggression, one has much more potential for injury and death than the other.

    Do you see the error in your rhetoric?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricey View Post
    So, if a Hungarian puli attacks and kills a basenji, thats OK because it is a Hungarian puli. But if it was an American Pit Bull Terrier, thats not OK? So if an American Pit Bull Terrier attacks and severely disfigures the child, that is really bad. But if it was a kelpie, that is OK?

    Are you not able to see the flaws in your logic?
    This is not my logic, this is a strawman fallacy. Please show me where I even implied anything of the sort.

    Quote Originally Posted by ricey View Post
    Or are you so involved in exploring your inner self that you are not able to see anything? Drop me a PM and I'll explain what 'exploring your inner self' means.

    Cheers,

    ricey
    No thanks, I think I can probably ascertain what you're implying. Similarly, maybe you should go discover your own potential for self-satisfaction.
    Last edited by Mosh; 12-20-2012 at 08:24 PM.

  10. #220

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricey View Post
    Finally, Mosh and I are on the same page! Yay! I have no problem with anything that Mosh has said here.

    Mosh, I really hope that both of us can go forward from here. I genuinely accept every point you make in this post.
    Cheers,
    ricey
    We're on the same page because we're both dog people. We just differ in our perception of dogs and how they should be viewed.

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