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Thread: OMG my next door neighbor has bought a red nosed pit bull!!!!

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosh View Post
    Fantastic. Good for you. You've wasted an hour of your life quoting a lot of my posts and aggressively calling them crap, but there seems to be a lack of actual rebuttals there just hostility. Do you want to engage in discussion or just fight? I'm not interested in fighting and slinging insults so if you want that you should go elsewhere.

    I get that you are offended that I think your favorite dog should be restricted, I get that you think I'm a pompous wordy blowhard and I should not be allowed to have my opinion - but what exactly is your point? That there's no difference between staffies and pitbulls? That the pitbull has exactly the same aggression level as any other dog and can be handled by anyone? That it's totally trustworthy? There are many pitbull owners who will tell you this is not true. Do you HAVE a point or are you just here to sling insults? You think I'm an idiot and maybe I am, but at least I'm a polite idiot.
    My main point is that you know very little about American Pit Bull terriers and have no personal experience with them. However, you are prepared to keep stating and restating your view that this breed should not exist. I put up most of your posts so that other forum members could read them easily without having to trawl through all 20 pages of this thread. As you can probably tell, I got a little tired by the end as the posts just seemed to be repeating themselves.

    You are not alone in your view that the American Pit Bull Terrier should be eradicated; Graeme Smith of the Lost Dogs Home shares your view. However, I would strongly like to make the point that your view and his is an uneducated and ill-informed view. Restricting breeds has been proven to not only be ineffective in reducing dog attacks, but actually increase them.

    Interestingly, your view on the APBT and the need for restriction with a view to eradication was strongly championed by Hugh Wirth (Victorian RSPCA president and former RSPCA national president), who used to decry the APBT as "that vile breed". Hugh Wirth's relentless campaign to eradicate the American Pit Bull Terrier is the main reason why anti American Pit Bull Terrier breed specific legislation came into being in Australia. Hugh Wirth led the charge that you are now championing, but Hugh Wirth now accepts that he got it wrong. After reading the research, Hugh Wirth has recanted his position. I stress, he read the scientific and validated research, not just a few web sites and daily papers.

    I would recommend you read this transcript of this ABC Radio interview of Hugh Wirth, Kirsty Seksel and Graeme Smith:

    PM - Vets call for end to dangerous dog breed bans 14/08/2012

    If someone of Hugh Wirth's public profile, who put in so much effort and media time to pressure successive Australian federal and state governments to legislate against the American Pit Bull Terrier, can now freely admit they were wrong, then I would suggest there is hope that you may be able to change your mind too.

    ricey
    Last edited by ricey; 12-19-2012 at 02:23 PM. Reason: spelling error
    The APBT is the best of the best dogs (but it is just a dog, like any other breed of dog)

    My avatar? It's a pit bull in a poodle suit (a bit like me really)

  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricey View Post
    My main point is that you know very little about American Pit Bull terriers and have no personal experience with them. However, you are prepared to keep stating and restating your view that this breed should not exist. I put up most of your posts so that other forum members could read them easily without having to trawl through all 20 pages of this thread. As you can probably tell, I got a little tired by the end as the posts just seemed to be repeating themselves.

    You are not alone in your view that the American Pit Bull Terrier should be eradicated; Graeme Smith of the Lost Dogs Home shares your view. However, I would strongly like to make the point that your view and his is an uneducated and ill-informed view. Restricting breeds has been proven to not only be ineffective in reducing dog attacks, but actually increase them.
    That's interesting, because for all of your time spent meticulously collecting my posts, your comprehension skills are abysmal. I never said that the breed should not exist and I never said that it should be eradicated. I have been repeating over and over again that since the pitbull has been selectively bred for fighting, it follows that it will be more likely to fight. It follows that as dog lovers, we should be collectively thinking of ways to make the breed more trustworthy. So far nobody has actually countered this position, and the reason I've been repeating myself is because:
    (a) I'm one person debating 4 or 5 other people, and
    (b) I feel like nobody actually gets what I'm trying to say.

    However everyone in the thread has been polite and civil and the discussion has been pretty informative up until you decided to stick your oar in.


    Quote Originally Posted by ricey View Post
    Interestingly, your view on the APBT and the need for restriction with a view to eradication was strongly championed by Hugh Wirth (Victorian RSPCA president and former RSPCA national president), who used to decry the APBT as "that vile breed". Hugh Wirth's relentless campaign to eradicate the American Pit Bull Terrier is the main reason why anti American Pit Bull Terrier breed specific legislation came into being in Australia. Hugh Wirth led the charge that you are now championing, but Hugh Wirth now accepts that he got it wrong. After reading the research, Hugh Wirth has recanted his position. I stress, he read the scientific and validated research, not just a few web sites and daily papers.
    So basically your entire attack on me is a strawman. I never said that the breed should be eradicated and I challenge you to find a quote of mine that even implies this. For the entire thread I have been "championing" breeding the aggression out of them, not eradicating the breed itself. The first rescue dog I ever took care of was a Sharpei-pitbull cross and he was a legendary dog, he got on with my JRT like a house on fire, she would boss him around and he would do as she told him. Nobody wanted him for ages, despite his quick learning abilities and constant desire to please. The reason was he could be pretty dog aggressive despite my intensive training which improved his behaviour but did not perfect it.

    I made damn sure that the people I gave him to were experienced and knew exactly what they were doing. If he had been bred to have a calmer, more trustworthy, and less dog aggressive temperament, his life would have been a hell of a lot easier. However being a mix of two fighting breeds, he was disadvantaged from birth. His new owners love him but they know they can never trust him fully which is sad IMO. He deserved a lot better start from life and it bothers me to think that people are deliberately breeding more and more dogs like him.

    If we stopped obsessively breeding dogs to meet an arbitrary breed standard and started breeding them all to be good natured trustworthy multi-purpose companions, then we'd see a marked drop in dog attacks, everyone's lives would be easier, and we all wouldn't have so many unwanted dogs to foster. It's time to stop thinking about how unique we can make each breed look, and start thinking about what's best for the species as a whole.


    Quote Originally Posted by ricey View Post
    I would recommend you read this transcript of this ABC Radio interview of Hugh Wirth, Kirsty Seksel and Graeme Smith:

    PM - Vets call for end to dangerous dog breed bans 14/08/2012

    If someone of Hugh Wirth's public profile, who put in so much effort and media time to pressure successive Australian federal and state governments to legislate against the American Pit Bull Terrier, can now freely admit they were wrong, then I would suggest there is hope that you may be able to change your mind too.

    ricey
    Part of changing someone's mind is not misrepresenting what they're saying and being overemotional to the point of open hostility. If you want to change my mind, you'll have to put forward some convincing arguments that counter mine as well as actually stating your position.
    I'm of the view that a lot of dog breeds should be restricted and the breeders themselves should be heavily regulated so that only people who know what they're doing can own powerful working dogs. It's pretty clear to all that there are too many dogs in Australia, puppy mills and breeders are pumping out far more supply than there is demand. Thousands of beautiful healthy dogs are put down every year.

    If a person knows their stuff, I've got no problem with them owning any breed they like. What I do have a problem with is people wanting to look tough and buying rottweilers/dobermanns/pitbulls on impulse and then having no idea how to handle them. I have a huge problem with breeder businesses breeding dogs to a standard set by dog show judges, and then having to deal with the fallout of people getting rid of their expensive working breeds because the dog has become unbalanced and is too much for them to handle.

    Society is telling the dog community that they are sick and tired of innocent people and dogs getting mauled. The message they are sending is that they are prepared to go to extreme and horrifying lengths to prevent serious and fatal dog attacks. They're prepared to kill newborn puppies and invade people's homes to euthanize dogs that have never hurt anyone. They are saying that this is our problem and if we can't take care of it our way, they will do it their way. This is a wakeup call and I think we ignore this message at our own peril.

  3. #203

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    Society is telling us all that ?
    Killing newborn puppies?


    Where?

    Or do you mean a 'percentage' of society and its likely that percentage are being driven untruths and rumours being boldly stated as truth by media and Government.
    GageDesign Pet Photography
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  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChoppaChop View Post
    Society is telling us all that ?
    Killing newborn puppies?


    Where?

    Or do you mean a 'percentage' of society and its likely that percentage are being driven untruths and rumours being boldly stated as truth by media and Government.
    When BSL was brought in, there were pictures of piles of dead puppies who had fallen foul of the "register before this date" rule. The city councils invaded people's homes and put down dogs that had no history of aggression. Others were tied up in costly legal battles where they'd have to prove that their own dogs weren't a banned breed. This is atrocious and shows how irrational and fearful society has become. Or, like you pointed out, how irrational and fearful a PORTION of society has become, while the rest just don't care about the issue.

    It's pretty clear to me that, like any other problem, society is going to lurch toward the first kneejerk solution that is mentioned whether it works or not. It's therefore up to the people with actual knowledge to do the best they can to fix it from within. I believe this means making a huge effort to breed dogs without aggression, and prioritize this over other things such as breed standard appearance. So what if there's a bit of variation in the shoulder size or head shape? What matters is how trustworthy the average dog is, and this goes for all breeds not just pitbulls.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosh View Post
    That's interesting, because for all of your time spent meticulously collecting my posts, your comprehension skills are abysmal. I never said that the breed should not exist and I never said that it should be eradicated. I have been repeating over and over again that since the pitbull has been selectively bred for fighting, it follows that it will be more likely to fight. It follows that as dog lovers, we should be collectively thinking of ways to make the breed more trustworthy. So far nobody has actually countered this position, and the reason I've been repeating myself is because:
    (a) I'm one person debating 4 or 5 other people, and
    (b) I feel like nobody actually gets what I'm trying to say.

    However everyone in the thread has been polite and civil and the discussion has been pretty informative up until you decided to stick your oar in.




    So basically your entire attack on me is a strawman. I never said that the breed should be eradicated and I challenge you to find a quote of mine that even implies this. For the entire thread I have been "championing" breeding the aggression out of them, not eradicating the breed itself. The first rescue dog I ever took care of was a Sharpei-pitbull cross and he was a legendary dog, he got on with my JRT like a house on fire, she would boss him around and he would do as she told him. Nobody wanted him for ages, despite his quick learning abilities and constant desire to please. The reason was he could be pretty dog aggressive despite my intensive training which improved his behaviour but did not perfect it.

    I made damn sure that the people I gave him to were experienced and knew exactly what they were doing. If he had been bred to have a calmer, more trustworthy, and less dog aggressive temperament, his life would have been a hell of a lot easier. However being a mix of two fighting breeds, he was disadvantaged from birth. His new owners love him but they know they can never trust him fully which is sad IMO. He deserved a lot better start from life and it bothers me to think that people are deliberately breeding more and more dogs like him.

    If we stopped obsessively breeding dogs to meet an arbitrary breed standard and started breeding them all to be good natured trustworthy multi-purpose companions, then we'd see a marked drop in dog attacks, everyone's lives would be easier, and we all wouldn't have so many unwanted dogs to foster. It's time to stop thinking about how unique we can make each breed look, and start thinking about what's best for the species as a whole.




    Part of changing someone's mind is not misrepresenting what they're saying and being overemotional to the point of open hostility. If you want to change my mind, you'll have to put forward some convincing arguments that counter mine as well as actually stating your position.
    I'm of the view that a lot of dog breeds should be restricted and the breeders themselves should be heavily regulated so that only people who know what they're doing can own powerful working dogs. It's pretty clear to all that there are too many dogs in Australia, puppy mills and breeders are pumping out far more supply than there is demand. Thousands of beautiful healthy dogs are put down every year.

    If a person knows their stuff, I've got no problem with them owning any breed they like. What I do have a problem with is people wanting to look tough and buying rottweilers/dobermanns/pitbulls on impulse and then having no idea how to handle them. I have a huge problem with breeder businesses breeding dogs to a standard set by dog show judges, and then having to deal with the fallout of people getting rid of their expensive working breeds because the dog has become unbalanced and is too much for them to handle.

    Society is telling the dog community that they are sick and tired of innocent people and dogs getting mauled. The message they are sending is that they are prepared to go to extreme and horrifying lengths to prevent serious and fatal dog attacks. They're prepared to kill newborn puppies and invade people's homes to euthanize dogs that have never hurt anyone. They are saying that this is our problem and if we can't take care of it our way, they will do it their way. This is a wakeup call and I think we ignore this message at our own peril.
    OK, you say say that you have never said to eradicate the breed, just 'restrict' the breed. In Australia and all other countries that that have implemented restrictions have mandated compulsory sterilisation of all individual dogs. That is a fairly obvious way of eradicating a breed don't you think? I accept that you did not state to eradicate the breed, but the suggestion to restrict ends up with eradication, and always has from a historical perspective.

    You complain that nobody 'gets' what you are trying to say. I would suggest that actually everbody does get what you say; it is just that they are not convinced of your arguement. Stating the same thing over and over without providing factual or authoritive evidence is not going to convince anybody that what you suggest has merit.

    I note that you have conveniently chosen to not respond to the main part of my post where I point out that Hugh Wirth (the original driving force behind all the breed specific legislation in Australia) has recanted. Hugh Wirth went down the path that you are recommending, but he has been convinced by the research that he was wrong. I think Hugh should be acknowledged for having the courage to publicly admit that his 20 year long campaign was misguided.

    As for your complaint that
    I have been repeating over and over again that since the pitbull has been selectively bred for fighting, it follows that it will be more likely to fight. It follows that as dog lovers, we should be collectively thinking of ways to make the breed more trustworthy. So far nobody has actually countered this position, and the reason I've been repeating myself is because:
    (a) I'm one person debating 4 or 5 other people, and
    (b) I feel like nobody actually gets what I'm trying to say.
    I'd suggest that others have tried to counter your point of view.

    After your original post jadielee87 said
    Really Mosh? A pit bull IS just a dog. They require work just like any other DOG.
    Jadielee obviously did not agree with your beliefs, but she is just as entitled to hold her beliefs as you are.

    Beloz made this post in reply to you
    Originally Posted by Mosh
    If your neighbours are terrified of your dogs, it sounds like they would not be able to handle a pitbull. Despite what people may say, a pitbull is not "just a dog", they require a LOT of effort, exercise, and training, and even then it will not be 100% trustworthy around children and other dogs. When the pro-pitbull website run by people who love pitbulls says "never trust your pitbull not to fight", you know that this is not a breed that makes a good house pet. I understand your concern and I would be just as concerned in your position.
    You are not supposed tot trust any dog 100% around kids (which is why the experts' advice is to always supervise!) I don't know where you got the impression that PBTs are less trustworthy with kids than other dogs? These dogs used to be called "nanny dogs" for god's sake! And you can never trust any dog not to fight! It's not because you read it on a pro-PBT website that it is specific to that breed.

    Your opinion does not at all seem based on facts. Which kind of surprises me from you, to be honest.

    And I don't know about anyone else, but I really don't like people calling them red-nosed pit bulls. As if it is some dangerous variety of the breed or something? Don't they all have red noses anyway? Why mention it?

    PS: I don't own a pitbull nor do any of my friends (though one is fostering a possible pitbull x).
    Obviously I could go on listing posts where people have tried to counter your belief statements with statements of their own.

    I pointed out to you that historically, less than 1% of American pit Bull terriers were fought in the pit. Selectively bred as a fighting breed? So what were the 99% of APBTs bred for?

    The American Pit Bull Terrier is a working dog breed that was used and is still used for many tasks. The APBT's drive make them superb working animals in a variety of fields; I recall that I mentioned in this thread that they are the best in many fields. A good dog owner can channel the APBT's drive to make it succeed at the tasks the owner chooses to train the APBT in.

    You keep stating over and over that the APBT is a fighting breed and that therefore they are more dangerous than other breeds. Many posters on this thread have countered your arguement, pointing out for example that they were bred to have no human aggression. This fact alone counters your arguement but you choose to ignore it. You seem to believe that dog fighting was the only thing that APBTs were bred for but you are mistaken. I'd recommend that you read Dianne Jessup's book "The Working Pit Bull" (TFH Publications 1995) if you are interested in discovering some facts about what the APBT actually is.

    Just repeating your mantra "they were used for fighting so therefore they are more dangerous" is not about to convince anybody with a modicum of logic that your understanding of the issues involved is superior. You keep stating this, but you really have not given up anything that proves this. As I said, everybody 'gets' what you are saying; it just that nobody believes you as you have not provided any evidence.

    ricey
    The APBT is the best of the best dogs (but it is just a dog, like any other breed of dog)

    My avatar? It's a pit bull in a poodle suit (a bit like me really)

  6. #206
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    A neighbour has three little dogs who run to the front gates (no side fence) bark and snarl at everyone who walks past, local council couldn't give a stuff.

    If it was a APBT or one of my dogs, the police,army,navy and air force would be outside my house in a flash with guns drawn - BSL is a bloody joke.
    Chloe & Zorro
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    'cept it's not funny

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by farrview View Post
    'cept it's not funny
    I agree totally; breed specific legislation is a sick joke perpetrated by idiots who know nothing about how to successfully deal with the problems caused by bad owners and their individual dogs. Politicians and others who favour breed restrictions choose to ignore all the evidence that proves that breed restrictions do not work to reduce dog bites or dog fatalities. I suspect that politicians just want to appear to be taking a tough, no compromise position, and some of the more simplistic members of our society just want a quick fix by virtue of the short, sharp shock method.

    Here is a link to the Australian Veterinary Associations "Dangerous dogs – a sensible solution" Policy and model legislative framework of August 2012:

    http://www.ava.com.au/sites/default/...on%20FINAL.pdf

    This is a very well researched and factual position paper that goes into some very necessary about all aspects of the problem of individual dangerous dogs. It is 47 pages long, and like all properly prepared and researched scientific articles, it quotes its references fully. I would recommend anyone with an interest in this area to take the time to read it. The arguements against any form of breed specific legislation or breed specific restrictions are stated factually. While there are many points that caught my eye, I was particularly taken by this excerpt:

    It is clear that one of the factors that differs between breeds of dogs is temperament (Hart
    and Miller 1986, Hart and Hart 1986, Bradshaw et al 1996, Coppinger and Coppinger 1996,
    Takeuchi and Mori 2006). However there is strong evidence that behavioural traits are more
    associated with current use than with a breed’s historical purpose (Svartberg 2006). Social
    and non-social fearfulness (resulting in aggression) can be rapidly altered in a few
    generations under intense selection (Muphree 1969 referenced in Svartberg 2006).
    A number of studies have been undertaken in the past decade that clearly question the
    proposition that certain breeds are inherently more aggressive than others.
    Temperament testing – Germany 2008
    Schalke et al (2000a, 2000b) examined 415 dogs in compulsory, standardised
    behaviour tests delivered by qualified and experienced veterinary behaviourists. 95%
    of the dogs’ tests showed no indication of disturbed aggressive communication or
    aggressive behaviour in inappropriate situations. No significant differences were
    found between American Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Pit Bull Terriers, Doberman
    Pinschers and Rottweilers. In a comparison study with 70 Golden Retrievers, no
    significant difference was found between the Golden Retrievers and the restricted
    breeds.
    So, it would appear that a Pit Bull is just a dog, like any other dog.

    But anyway, I'd recommend all to read the position paper and make up their own minds on the evidence contained within.

    Cheers,

    ricey
    The APBT is the best of the best dogs (but it is just a dog, like any other breed of dog)

    My avatar? It's a pit bull in a poodle suit (a bit like me really)

  9. #209
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    And here is the bit of my previous excerpt from the AVA's position paper that I'd really like to nail:

    However there is strong evidence that behavioural traits are more
    associated with current use than with a breed’s historical purpose (Svartberg 2006).
    So only 1% of American Pit Bull Terriers may have been used for dog fighting over 90 years ago, but even that 1% is irrelevant now.

    OK, I have edited this post with the aim of conciliation:

    Hopefully this is the bit of evidence that will convince Mosh and others that just because American Pit Bull Terriers were fighting dogs once does not result in them being any more dangerous than other dog breed of similar size.

    Regards,

    ricey
    Last edited by ricey; 12-20-2012 at 06:06 PM. Reason: to make it less confrontational
    The APBT is the best of the best dogs (but it is just a dog, like any other breed of dog)

    My avatar? It's a pit bull in a poodle suit (a bit like me really)

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricey View Post
    So only 1% of American Pit Bull Terriers may have been used for dog fighting over 90 years ago, but even that 1% is irrelevant now.

    What was that Mosh mantra I mentioned in my earlier post? Oh thats right, "American Pit Bull Terriers are fighting dogs so therefore they are more dangerous than other dog breeds".
    It's not just me who is saying it. You act like it's just something I made up one day to annoy pitbull owners, which is really disingenuous of you and shows your gross bias and lack of objectivity. Pretty much every site with info about APBT's reiterate in some form or another that they are not trustworthy around other dogs and are likely to display aggressive behaviour. Some of the sites flat out state that dog aggression is a characteristic of the breed. These are all people who love pitbulls, they know a lot about the breed and are very experienced. They've put a lot of work into websites about how much they love their dogs. But don't take my word for it, I've provided some of the sites for your perusal. There are many, many more out there, all saying more or less the same thing.

    From wikipedia:
    Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog.
    From The American Pit Bull Terrier Network:

    Regarding aggression in the breed:

    DOG toward DOG aggression IS a characteristic of most terriers, including the APBT.
    DOG toward HUMAN aggression IS NOT a characteristic of the APBT at all in any form.

    Any APBT that displays dog toward human aggression in any form, unless saving the life of their owners, should be euthanized. The APBT is not a guardian breed and should never act like one.

    While various degrees of dog to dog aggression are to be expected. Handlers at all times MUST and are expected to maintain control of their dogs at all times and dogs must be trained and socialized around other dogs enough that they can be moved through crowded show venues without danger to other dogs. If a dog is out of control excuse the competitor.
    From Dogtime.com's description of the APBT:

    Your American Pit Bull Terrier must be kept on leash in public to prevent aggression toward other dogs. It's not a good idea to let these dogs run loose in dog parks. While they might not start a fight, they'll never back down from one, and they fight to the finish. American Pit Bulls who aren't properly socialized as puppies can become aggressive toward other dogs.
    From "For the love of pitbulls", pitbullsontheweb.org

    What can you expect from an APBT? First and foremost, memorize the following: THE GOLDEN RULE OF PIT BULL OWNERSHIP- NEVER TRUST YOUR PIT BULL NOT TO FIGHT!!!!! This breed is descended from pit dogs one way or another, and, given the right circumstances, most Pit Bulls will fight and against any other breed, they will win (you really don't want to see that!).


    Scared yet? You should be. Remember, as the owner of a Pit Bull everything you or your dog do will affect all members of the breed and their families. Pit Bull owners have to be extra vigilant 24/7, period. You need to be receptive, have strong leadership, and be able to read canine body language to recognize signs of tension between housemates. You need to be prepared to separate the dogs if tensions develop. You need to know when your dog may become aggressive and you need to have control of your dog under any circumstances.


    ....... snip ......

    1. Pit Bulls are often dog-aggressive to one extent or another (this often shows up at or near sexual maturity). A dog that was previously non-dog aggressive may "turn-on" and suddenly doesn't like other dogs of the same sex, or, for that matter, any dogs at all, even housemates they have been raised with. Adult Pit Bulls should NEVER be left alone with other dogs and require proper supervision.
    From "Pitbull information" via pitsandrottsforlife.com:

    Never trust your pit bull not to fight with another dog. They are relatively slow-maturing
    dogs, sometimes not showing their full personality until 3 or even 4 years old. If you are
    bringing your pit bull into a home with other animals, or add animals later, you must use
    caution and never leave them unattended.
    From trupitbull.com

    Ten Commandments of Pit Bull Ownership
    1. THOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY WRONG DONE BY THY DOGS!!
    2. Thy Pit Bull shalt go forth into the world as an ambassador of the pit bull breed.
    3. Thou shalt take thy well trained Pit Bull out in public and show him/her off - on leash for bettering the breed.
    4. Thy Pit Bull wilt NEVER be allowed to roam free in thy neighborhood, EVER!
    5. Thy Pit Bull wilt NEVER be allowed off - leash in a public place.
    6. Thou shalt keep thy Pit Bull socialized with ALL KINDS of people.
    7. Thou shalt attend obedience classes most faithfully with thy Pit Bull.
    8. Thou shalt NEVER leave thy adult Pit Bull alone and unsupervised with another dog.
    9. Thou shalt contain thy Pit Bull securely when not supervised by an adult.
    10. Thou shalt NEVER trust thy Pit Bull not to fight.
    From "Pitty love rescue"

    Understand that your Pit Bull may be dog-aggressive. Take precautions and use common sense – do not allow your Pitbull to run up to unknown dogs, and never allow unknown dogs to run up to your Pit Bull. You are the pack leader, not your dog, and you should never expect your dog to be friends with unfamiliar dogs, especially without a proper introduction. Some Pit Bulls cannot be around any other dogs at all, and dog aggression is not something you will be able to train out of your pet Pit Bull. You can curb DA behavior and often control it, but not stop it altogether. The key to dealing with dog aggression is to understand your dog’s particular triggers and work on controlling the behavior, but most of all – love your dog for who he is!
    Never trust a Pit Bull not to fight. Even though your dogs are the best of friends, it’s better to be safe than sorry. All it takes is one time for a fight to break out. This is especially true with multiple Pit Bulls in one household of the same sex. If you have no other option than to leave your dogs together, be sure to remove any causes for fights such as food, toys or other possession that may cause a conflict.
    From "The Friendly Pitbull"

    What to watch out for with pit bull aggression

    As I said before, never trust your pit bull to not fight. Any dog can be pushed into fighting, and for some pit bulls all it takes is one fight to “unleash the demon” inside them and let their pit bull aggression out. The example I like to use is a border collie we used to have. He is a herding dog, but we got him at 6 weeks old and he not only had no training, he had never even seen any kind of livestock. Still, he loved herding our other dogs around the house. Herding dogs like to herd, working dogs like to work, and, unfortunately, fighting dogs like to fight. One fight can show your pit bull how much “fun” it is to fight, and how good they are at it, and unleash their natural pit bull aggression. The best way to avoid that is to never give them the chance.
    From "Prime pitbulls: the misunderstood and perfect breed"

    Never leave your Pit Bull alone and unsupervised with other dogs (or any animal).

    Pit Bulls can live peacefully with other dogs and animals like cats, rabbits, and ferrets, but for safety’s sake, never leave them alone together. Put your dogs into separate rooms, use kennels, or have outdoor areas set up for separation that are safe and secure. Note, even the “best of friends” can fight, and the outcome may be tragic. This can also happen with dogs that have been together for years. Often, after the first serious fight, relations between the dogs are never the same. Keeping that first fight from happening is a great way to ensure peaceful relations for the long run. If there is a multiple-dog household, it is important to separate the dogs when there is no one home. Early and continual socialization can help a Pit Bull be more animal friendly. Genetics, however, play an important role in how the dog will respond to other dogs and animals. Even if you’re dog gets along great with other animals most of the time the Pit Bull is known for animal aggression and it is possible something might happen. There’s a saying: “Never trust your Pit Bull not to fight. Rather be safe than sorry!

    I learned some interesting facts from reading these websites, such as any breed of dog that is tied up most of the time is nearly 3 times more likely to attack dogs or humans.





    So, it would appear that a Pit Bull is just a dog, like any other dog.
    No, despite what you would like to believe with your hostile, one-sided bias, the pitbull is not just like any other dog and does not have the same behaviour as every other dog. I'm sure in Ricey's comfortable little world every pitbull is totally trustworthy and non-aggressive, but in the real world this is sadly not the case. Your claim that only 1% of pitbulls were ever used for fighting has not been backed up with evidence, and even if it were true it doesn't prove anything - only a tiny proportion of JRT's are used for hunting rats, but you still can't trust them around a pet rat. Only a tiny proportion of golden retrievers are used for fetching dead ducks from the water, but they will still gravitate to the nearest water source. You are ignoring that breeds will exibit breed behaviour, and when I point this out to you, you practically foam at the mouth with rage. I understand that you love the breed, but what you are claiming and what is observable reality are two different things. The Dachshund is also known for its dog aggression and I can personally support this with experiences of aggressive Dachshunds. They are apparently the most aggressive dog in Australia. I expect if they were as big and as powerful as the APBT, they would also be victims of BSL. I wonder if you'd put up as much of a fuss in a thread about untrustworthy dachsunds?

    Average specimens of the majority of dog breeds, can be trusted if left alone with another dog. So Ricey, would you trust a pitbull and leave it alone with another dog, keeping in mind the advice from all the provided websites?

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