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Thread: Australian Veterinary Association against BSL - it doesn't help reduce dog bites.

  1. #1
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    Default Australian Veterinary Association against BSL - it doesn't help reduce dog bites.

    From the AVA news site 7th August...

    Dangerous dogs – a sensible solution (7th August 2012 News article) | Australian Veterinary Association

    The AVA’s policy is firmly opposed to breed-specific legislation, so the association has invested in preparing a comprehensive report detailing its faults while also setting out an evidence-based alternative approach.
    Link to their report "dangerous dogs: a sensible solution"
    http://www.ava.com.au/sites/default/...on%20FINAL.pdf

    One point they make is that dogs at large (loose or stray dogs) - are the least likely to be involved in dog bites, and get the most media attention. Way out of proportion to the number of bites they make.

    A week later - it makes the ABC news. Wow. And Hugh Wirth (Vic RSPCA) has changed his mind. I think he still doesn't like pitbulls but he can see that Vic legislation has not stopped dog bites or dangerous dogs.

    PM - Vets call for end to dangerous dog breed bans 14/08/2012
    Radio PM on 14th August 2012
    Vets call for end to dangerous dog breed bans

    MARK COLVIN: Over the last half century, waves of anger at dog breeds from German Shepherds, through Rottweilers, to Pit Bulls have led to calls for them to be banned.

    Now the peak body representing vets in Australia is calling on governments to ditch bans on breeds.

    The Australian Veterinary Association says the latest research shows that banning particular breeds does nothing to address aggression in dogs, and nothing to increase public safety.

    The vets say a focus on registration, education and temperament testing would be more effective.

    But a critic says they're advocating a risky strategy that allows every dog at least one free bite, and that bite could be fatal.

    Ashley Hall reports.

    ASHLEY HALL: In the past five years or so, each of the Australian state has moved to ban a selection of dog breeds considered to be dangerous.

    Among them, the American Pit Bull terrier and the Japanese Tosa.

    In each case, the ban followed a ferocious attack, and a brief debate about whether the dog or its owner was to blame.

    KERSTI SEKSEL: Breeds specific legislation is not the answer. It hasn't decreased the number of dog bites.

    ASHLEY HALL: Dr Kersti Seksel is a veterinary behaviourist who speaks for the Australian Veterinary Association, which has launched a new strategy today to deal with dog bites.

    KERSTI SEKSEL: Regardless of breed, dogs are capable of biting, just like people are capable of fighting regardless of our origin either.

    ASHLEY HALL: Don't some dogs do more damage though when they do bite?

    KERSTI SEKSEL: I guess the simple answer to that is the larger the dog, the more potential for damage.

    If you're a Great Dane and you dig a hole in the backyard, it's a much bigger hole that you're going to dig in the backyard than if you're a Chihuahua.

    If you're a Great Dane and you bite someone, the sheer size of you is going to make more damage than a Chihuahua will.

    But there are three kilo Yorkshire Terriers that have also killed human beings. So it's not just about size.

    ASHLEY HALL: The vets are proposing an alternative framework to dog breed bans.

    They want to see all dogs identified and registered, a national mandatory reporting system for dog bites, temperament testing when a dog is sold, and a community wide education campaign on bites for pet owners, breeders, parents and children.

    KERSTI SEKSEL: We know that owning pets and owning dogs is good for us. There's been lots of studies to show that they decrease blood pressure, decrease cholesterol and there's even been studies showing that we could save millions of dollars in the annual health budget in Australia if people actually owned pets.

    And dog bites, on the other hand, do cost the health budget a lot of money so in fact the way that I would see one way of getting it on the national agenda is to get the Federal Minister for Health on board.

    ASHLEY HALL: The president of RSPCA Victoria, Hugh Wirth, was once a supporter of banning dangerous dog breeds.

    He advocated for the breeding out of the American Pit Bull Terrier, saying they were "lethal" and "time bombs waiting for the right circumstances".

    But not anymore.

    HUGH WIRTH: The truth about breed-specific legislation is that it doesn't work, you don't decrease the numbers. In fact you send the breeding of that particular breed of dog underground.

    ASHLEY HALL: Now you're on the record as being an advocate for breeding out American Pit Bulls, for example, what's brought your change of heart?

    HUGH WIRTH: Well, I've kept up to date with veterinary research, behavioural research on dogs.

    What I believed years ago, when I made those statements, as pertinent to the RSPCA, was the common approach that even the veterinary profession was using.

    Now that this research has been done and it's quite widespread, we've discovered that our understanding of dogs and their behaviour was completely wrong.

    GRAEME SMITH: The old system of "deed not breed" is a system that allows dogs one free bite.

    In the case of American Pit Bull terriers one free bite can often be a fatal bite.

    ASHLEY HALL: Graeme Smith of Victoria's Lost Dogs Home says the AVA's recommendations are a backward step.

    GRAEME SMITH: I've seen what American Pit Bull Terriers do and people are fearful of them and we need to protect the community from these dogs.

    ASHLEY HALL: The AVA will send a copy of the new strategy to each level of government in an effort to have the plan adopted nationally.
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 08-14-2012 at 09:58 PM.

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    It seems like the government are just being stubborn in a way. They know BSL does not work, but don't want revoke their laws and become a joke so will carry on with ineffective laws to keep votes.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

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    Man fined $14,000 over Craigieburn dog attack
    Owner fined over dog attack - Crime - News - Hume Leader

    (removed inflamatory part of the post - H - this forum is for people who like dogs - and breed bashing is trolling on a dog forum)
    Last edited by Hyacinth; 08-15-2012 at 01:58 PM.

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    Nice troll realist....get a life.


    Quote Originally Posted by reyzor View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by realist View Post
    Man fined $14,000 over Craigieburn dog attack
    Owner fined over dog attack - Crime - News - Hume Leader

    bsl is here to stay..lets hope Rottis are next
    Hahaha are you for real... Sheesh get a life.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

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    Don't assume he's trolling just because he has a different opinion - there must be a substantial amount of people who agree with BSL and the banning of dog breeds. BSL is a symptom of a problem we are having with dogs in our society.

    People buy powerful, energetic breeds which are too much for them to handle. These dogs aren't bred to be family pets, they are working breeds which are all too often locked in a backyard without exercise and socialization. In my line of work I often have to retrain and socialize large, powerful dogs that are human aggressive or dog aggressive, and let me tell you it's no bed of roses. These are damaged dogs that have had their personalities stunted by lack of experience in the outside world.

    One of the first jobs I ever did was for a developmentally disabled lady with a very low IQ. She had a gigantic rott/dane mix that she kept locked in the house because she was terrified that it would bite someone. The younger me, cocky as I was, assured her that I would be fine around the dog and that I'd be able to easily find out what was wrong. As soon as I entered the house the dog began barking at me in an extremely threatening manner and I almost wet myself in fear. I am a big man, but this was a big, angry, unrestrained dog and it was telling me that it was considering killing me if I didn't get out of its house. Luckily for me I remembered my knowledge and did not run away, noting that the dog was standing its ground and acting very defensively. I was sweating and white as a sheet, but I did not look at the dog and tried to calmly engage the owner in conversation over the noise of this gigantic, lethal dog snarling and barking. I am absolutely certain that if I had walked towards it or tried to engage it in any way, it would have had a go at me. It did not stop barking for the whole time I was there. The family was unable to bring friends over to their house, and their entire life was dominated by this gigantic dangerous dog which for them, was totally uncontrollable.

    This lady was not intelligent and could not grasp or understand what I was telling her to do, she could barely write her own name. her kids wanted me out of the house in case the dog bit me, and the dad was getting tanked with a bottle of Jim Beam in a caravan in the back yard. None of them thought that I could do any good, and after realizing that they didn't have any money to pay me and they would not follow my instructions, I left and never went back. I firmly believe that people like them should be prevented from aquiring large, powerful dogs which they would turn into unsocialized, vicious time bombs. There is no cost-effective, easily policable method in which to do this.

    Over the years I have come into contact with many similar dogs, all with no manners, no useful experience, and no training to speak of. An adult powerful breed such as a rottweiler, bull terrier, amstaff, or dobermann that thinks it's ok to threaten and bite people and other dogs, will never be 100% trustworthy, and the process of rehabilitation is a very long, difficult, and expensive one. Sometimes it's possible to get a dog trustworthy if you catch them young enough and change the course of their development. I'm working with two young (1 yr old) rottweilers at the moment and I'm confident I can make them normal and friendly, but in 2 or 3 years I may not be able to as the habitually aggressive behaviour ingrains deeply.

    Because it's almost impossible to licence dogs so only people who have the relevant knowledge and skills can own them, BSL is the most efficient way of eliminating the breeds that are potentially the most dangerous. There ARE differences in breeds, and some breeds ARE more likely to be aggressive than others.

    We MUST figure out a way to stop ignorant people from getting their hands on powerful dogs who can't give them what they need, which is regular exercise, socialization, and a disciplined lifestyle. At the moment the government thinks the easiest way to do this is to kill all the breeds that attack. Perhaps the dog community needs to organize and think of a way to control what types of dogs are owned by people. We will continue to see powerful breeds causing horrific injuries and fatalities otherwise. People should be able to walk their dogs without fear of being attacked.



    Please note that I am long-term fostering an amstaff cross myself, so I am aware of the affection and loyalty these powerful breeds are capable of if you fulfil their needs. Ajax is a fantastic dog and I love him very much, but I'm aware that if he was owned by an ignorant, neglectful person, he would be a dangerous and uncontrollable nightmare. As it is he comes to work with us every day and meets a wide range of dogs and people, causing him to develop into a highly social, totally safe companion. My question is how can we make sure that dogs like him are only owned by responsible knowledgable people?

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    Mosh he/she is a troll, they only pop up on BSL thread posting comments that are sure to inflame emotions and rarely add any value to the topic. Pretty sure they have also had previous warning about it as well.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

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    Troll removed.

    Troll has been previously warned for posting stuff that is anti-dog on a forum for people who like dogs.

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    The fact remains that there is a problem that is not being taken care of. If BSL is not working then we as a society need to find a solution that does work. What are some possible solutions to reduce the amount of idiots buying powerful dogs? Short of throwing a lot of money and resources at the problem and forcing people to hold licences for their dogs similar to gun licences, I'm stumped.

    In the right hands a pitbull can be a loyal and excellent companion, but when their exercise and discipline needs are not met they are capable of causing injuries similar to a shark attack, for no other reason than they are bored and frenzied with energy. They have been bred to have massive power behind their jaws, something which most other breeds lack.



    I realize that this is not going to be a popular opinion around here, but I believe we should be doing whatever we can to keep animals like these out of the hands of ignorant stupid people. Unless we can come up with a better way, that means banning them outright. I just can't bring myself to accept that a certain amount of danger is acceptable because we have to allow people to own whatever dog breed they want.

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    I think your opinion is spot on. We can come up with a better way. We need a license system introduced for own a dog of any breed IMO. And it needs to happen very soon, but it wont.

    Just like everything in this world.....the good guys get punished for the actions of a few wankers. It's easy to ban somthing and put the more difficult but logical soution in the 'to hard' bin.

    I still hear of people getting shot everyday in Australia........banning guns achieved nothing and neither will BSL.


    Quote Originally Posted by reyzor View Post
    Education is important, but big biceps are more importanter ...
    DONT SIC YOUR DOGMA ON ME !

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