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Thread: Australian Veterinary Association against BSL - it doesn't help reduce dog bites.

  1. #11
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    A pit bulls jaw is no stronger than that of a GSD or rottie, calling them a "shark" is a bit of an overeaction.

    But I agree, it all comes back to education. I have family members that own some APBT's and they were shocked to find out that lock jaw didn't exist. I don't think they actually believed me that the myth was busted. These are the people we need to be targeting. They own these dogs yet don't seem to have any knowledge about the breed.

    There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadielee87 View Post
    A pit bulls jaw is no stronger than that of a GSD or rottie, calling them a "shark" is a bit of an overeaction.

    But I agree, it all comes back to education. I have family members that own some APBT's and they were shocked to find out that lock jaw didn't exist. I don't think they actually believed me that the myth was busted. These are the people we need to be targeting. They own these dogs yet don't seem to have any knowledge about the breed.
    lol i know i was if you all remberd that one lol
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadielee87 View Post
    A pit bulls jaw is no stronger than that of a GSD or rottie, calling them a "shark" is a bit of an overeaction.
    Looks like you're right, after some reading I've found that rottweilers exert more psi than pitbulls. I guess rottweilers really will be next on the BSL list.

    However not many other dogs display the "hold and shake" style of biting that pitbulls are known for. It is much more difficult to pry open a pitbull's jaws than a rottweiler's.
    Last edited by Mosh; 08-15-2012 at 06:52 PM.

  4. #14

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    Never leave pit bulls alone with other dogs (or any animal). Even if you're dog gets along great 99.9% of the time with other animals the Pit Bull is known for animal aggression and it is possible something will happen. A good piece of advice I received a long time ago was, Never trust your Pit Bull not to fight.

    Source: Pitbulllovers.com
    Even websites dedicated to pitbulls don't deny that they are more dangerous around animals than other dogs. I know rottweilers I would trust left alone with my own dog, but I don't think I'd trust a pitbull.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosh View Post
    Even websites dedicated to pitbulls don't deny that they are more dangerous around animals than other dogs. I know rottweilers I would trust left alone with my own dog, but I don't think I'd trust a pitbull.
    What about a staffy, would you leave a staffy alone with your dog?

  6. #16
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    I just read a article the same as this, different news site though. And am glad to hear it..
    No one loves you like your dog does.

  7. #17
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    This is part of what the AVA suggest doing.

    Dangerous dogs – a sensible solution sets out a legislative framework that focuses on identifying and managing ‘potentially dangerous dogs’ before they become ‘dangerous dogs’. This legislative framework needs to be supported by complementary components of an effective policy solution including:

    Effective identification and registration of all dogs
    A national reporting system to track dog bite incidents consistently with mandatory reporting of dog bite incidents to the national database
    Temperament testing encouraged by reduced registration costs, and able to be mandated by animal control authorities
    Education of the whole community including pet owners, breeders, parents and children
    Adequate enforcement and resourcing to ensure compliance.
    The problem with trying to do something breed specific is obvious to most people -
    1. its often impossible to identify a particular breed.
    2. even if you know what breed a dog is - that doesn't make it safe or dangerous. A small dog can rip a child's face apart - so the child never looks quite right for the rest of its life. A labrador is not a safe dog either, and is plenty big enough to cause serious damage to humans and kill other dogs and livestock.
    3. what do you do with bitsa dogs?
    4. breed specific legislation does nothing to educate owners or the general public. Media attention just makes people disproportionately scared of particular breeds. Most dog attacks happen in the home by a dog known to the victirm. So tightening up on loose dogs does not stop bites by dogs at home.
    5. its likely that banning scary looking dogs - just means that people continue to keep them illegally and do nothing to make dogs or people safe.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by mymatejack View Post
    What about a staffy, would you leave a staffy alone with your dog?
    Ajax is an American Staffy cross, so yes I would. I trust him, but only because I'm the one who has taught him. I wouldn't put the responsibility on a dog I don't know and haven't trained.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosh View Post
    People buy powerful, energetic breeds which are too much for them to handle. These dogs aren't bred to be family pets, they are working breeds which are all too often locked in a backyard without exercise and socialization. In my line of work I often have to retrain and socialize large, powerful dogs that are human aggressive or dog aggressive, and let me tell you it's no bed of roses. These are damaged dogs that have had their personalities stunted by lack of experience in the outside world.

    I firmly believe that people like them should be prevented from aquiring large, powerful dogs which they would turn into unsocialized, vicious time bombs. There is no cost-effective, easily policable method in which to do this.

    Over the years I have come into contact with many similar dogs, all with no manners, no useful experience, and no training to speak of. An adult powerful breed such as a rottweiler, bull terrier, amstaff, or dobermann that thinks it's ok to threaten and bite people and other dogs, will never be 100% trustworthy, and the process of rehabilitation is a very long, difficult, and expensive one. Sometimes it's possible to get a dog trustworthy if you catch them young enough and change the course of their development. I'm working with two young (1 yr old) rottweilers at the moment and I'm confident I can make them normal and friendly, but in 2 or 3 years I may not be able to as the habitually aggressive behaviour ingrains deeply.

    Because it's almost impossible to licence dogs so only people who have the relevant knowledge and skills can own them, BSL is the most efficient way of eliminating the breeds that are potentially the most dangerous. There ARE differences in breeds, and some breeds ARE more likely to be aggressive than others.

    We MUST figure out a way to stop ignorant people from getting their hands on powerful dogs who can't give them what they need, which is regular exercise, socialization, and a disciplined lifestyle. At the moment the government thinks the easiest way to do this is to kill all the breeds that attack. Perhaps the dog community needs to organize and think of a way to control what types of dogs are owned by people. We will continue to see powerful breeds causing horrific injuries and fatalities otherwise. People should be able to walk their dogs without fear of being attacked.



    Please note that I am long-term fostering an amstaff cross myself, so I am aware of the affection and loyalty these powerful breeds are capable of if you fulfil their needs. Ajax is a fantastic dog and I love him very much, but I'm aware that if he was owned by an ignorant, neglectful person, he would be a dangerous and uncontrollable nightmare. As it is he comes to work with us every day and meets a wide range of dogs and people, causing him to develop into a highly social, totally safe companion. My question is how can we make sure that dogs like him are only owned by responsible knowledgable people?
    This is the hard part, dog ownership of powerful breeds. I have known 2 pit bulls. One was socialised and trained and owned by a resposible person who didnt allow the dog to get in a situation where there could potentially be a problem. A very nice dog that I was happy to dogsit and leave alone, unsupervised with my dogs when the owner was away.

    The cousin of this dog was a completely different matter. Owned by people who had no idea, it wasnt trained or exercised and they had it because they thought it was cool to own a pit bull. That dog was down right scary and I wouldnt let my dogs anywhere near it. It ended up ripping out the calf of a person walking past the house as it was free in the unfenced front yard and was euthanaised. It inflicted serious lasting damage to this person.

    The dogs that I have had dangerous encounters with have all been big powerful dogs owned by irresponsible owners, these include a rottweiller that nearly killed my cattle dog and killed my friends toy poodle, a doberman loose in its unfenced front yard who attacked and bit my friend as we were walking to school as kids, a GSD that mauled a kid at a party I was at and a staffy that the owner thought was cool to encourage to fight other dogs. I have also known many examples of these breeds that have been well bred and well handled and trained and are delightful dogs.

    Voluntary eduction only goes so far - the people who are resposible and want to learn. There are many out there who just dont seem to get it and continue on raising potentially dangerous dogs whithout a second thought. It makes me sick to the stomach to realise how this sort of attitude will make it harder for the rest of us to own the dogs we enjoy and train and keep responsibly, whatever the breed.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 08-16-2012 at 12:18 PM.

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