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Thread: 9 years old - had a litter?

  1. #11
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    I wouldnt get so obsessed with the ANKC when it comes to Border collies. Purebred working Border collies can be registered on the Australian working Border collie register and they have a website they are constructing to give more information. They have nothing to do with Border collie clubs or the ANKC, they are for serious working dogs. They can also be registered on the working sheepdog register.

    Things to check are the history of the dam and sire and the reason for breeding. They could both be top working dogs for all you know. I would also want to know the history of the breeding of the bitch and as much information as I could get about each dog. Breedings should be done to improve the quality of the breed and an ethical breeder takes care to make sure the dogs are healthy and bred for the right reason.

    You will soon get a feel for if this is an oops litter or one bred for the right reasons.

    9 years old does seem older than usual but there may be a good reason, if not I would steer clear.

    Mind you if it was a top working litter then the breeders would be unlikely to be selling to a pet home. Ethical breeders do not indiscriminantly place their pups, they look for suitable homes according to what they think the pup will be suitable for.

    Working bred BCs can make great pets, but you need to be aware of their lines. I have one that needs to work, I think he would go batty as a suburban pet in the hands of someone who didnt understand his needs and this was obvious from his parents, both hard core working dogs.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 06-16-2012 at 10:10 AM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    9 years old does seem older than usual but there may be a good reason, if not I would steer clear.

    .
    Some good info there Kalacreek, just curious as to what a breeder might cite as a good reason to breed from a 9 year old, when vets and specialists will say its not in the best interest of the animal to breed at that age with increased risks?
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  3. #13
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    i wouldn't be too obsessed with ANKC with working dogs either. But I wouldn't be happy if someone was doing ANKC and something else. Ie if you're going to go ANKC - it's 100% (according to their rules), or you 100% have nothing to do with ANKC.

    Otherwise they're lying to ANKC - and what else do they feel it's just fine to lie about and fine to lie to?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    Some good info there Kalacreek, just curious as to what a breeder might cite as a good reason to breed from a 9 year old, when vets and specialists will say its not in the best interest of the animal to breed at that age with increased risks?
    I personally dont know anyone who breeds their dogs at this age, however if the bitch has vet clearance and and has some exceptional working qualities and an amazing young sire comes along that wasnt available earlier then it is possible. Without a very good reason it would ring alarm bells for me. But then I have never bred a dog so my knowledge on reproductive ages is sketchy.

    Hyacinth - as to ANKC, yes it is 100% by their rules and that is fair enough.

    There is never usually a problem because in Australia most working bred dogs have their own registers and are usually only accepted onto the ANKC sporting registers, but their breeding is not governed by ANKC. I dont know what rules the working registers have as although my dogs are on them they are all sterilised and breeding will never be on my agenda. I doubt they have the same age and/ or litter number restrictions as ANKC.

    I know if you have been quality assured as a breeder with the working kelpie council, then people who purchase your dogs are covered by a full guarantee that the dog will work, or it will be replaced. Dogs can also be deregistered if found to have a genetic condition or any other reason that threatens the breed in anyway. It is all about working ability.

    When the Working BC register gets their site up I will be interested to look at their perspective on health and breeding.
    Last edited by Kalacreek; 06-17-2012 at 11:27 AM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalacreek View Post
    I personally dont know anyone who breeds their dogs at this age, however if the bitch has vet clearance and and has some exceptional working qualities and an amazing young sire comes along that wasnt available earlier then it is possible. Without a very good reason it would ring alarm bells for me. But then I have never bred a dog so my knowledge on reproductive ages is sketchy.

    .
    So you are saying some breeders will justify breeding from a 9 year old..against specialist reccomendations, if there is a chance they will get amazing puppies?

    Im not sure about working dog registeries but I know ANKC will allow most things with a vet cert, including extra litters and unless something stands out and bites the vet...they will get one...but that dosent make it ethical breeding nor the right thing to do for the bitch.

    Ankc also allows breeding from 12mths old....that also is not ethical in most breeds, but is a loophole for unethical breeders to take advantage of.

    I would think specialist advice regarding possible health issues for the mother far more ethical than taking advantage of another ANKC loophole for the sake of a great litter and a financial windfall. They are in effect saying, the extra risks to the bitch is worth it for a great litter???.
    I prefer the specialists opinions, they have nothing to gain.
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    So you are saying some breeders will justify breeding from a 9 year old..against specialist reccomendations, if there is a chance they will get amazing puppies?

    .
    I dont personally know anyone but it is possible. It would be a case by case I would imagine. It is probably in the main unlikely.

    Working breeders I know tend to breed their dogs from 18 months onwards once they have a good idea on how it is likely to work. The working world is rather different from the ANKC I mean where I live farmers will often shoot dogs that dont shape up for work because it is often too hard to rehome them satisfactorily and most farmers want a good dog, in most cases they are not pets, it is just business.

  7. #17
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    That is really sad that anyone would put a dog in that situation
    The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mohandas Gandhi

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by cavalierqld View Post
    From what I can see, in general vets and specialists reccomend breeding from age 2yrs (later for those breeds with serious and early undetectable genetic conditions) and no later than 6 years.

    That is the common consensus, so other than monetary values, I am not sure why anyone would want to mate a dog outside these ages, it is certainly not in the dogs best interest?

    Uterine inertia is a condition which can occur more often in older preggie females.
    In some slow maturing breeds, breeding at 2 years old would be a far greater welfare concern than breeding at 9. It would depend on the breed, and also the bitch.

    Considering some borders are working well into their teens it may not be such an issue. But it would be an individual thing.

  9. #19
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    I would just love the see the dog before any comment..some BC's live a healthy life until 15+years old....And are as fit as some 4 year old dogs at 9 or 10. So I would have to see the health of the dog
    Pets are forever

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