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Thread: "Papers"

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    34

    Default "Papers"

    So I recently purchased a GSD pup which we are very very happy with. He has a wonderful temperament and is a very smart little guy.

    I am ashamed to admit though, that I got him from what I now perceive to be a BYB. I have had dogs all my life, but until now the responsibility for anything but playing and feeding has never been my own, so I am quite uneducated on anything else to do with registering a dog and having "papers".

    So, here's my ridiculously silly question - what exactly are papers? How do you get them? What exactly does having "papers" do for a dog? I admittedly should have done all this research beforehand but his purchase happened so quickly (I fell in love with him as soon as I saw him - big mistake, I know!) and I am just trying to do the right thing by him.

    Thank you for putting up with my silly question. Any information will be appreciated.

  2. #2

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    I will be following this thread, I am about to ring the ANKC and DogsNSW to do the right thing - I got my amstaff from a breeder that apparently shes not pedigreed and I am very furious about this, to make it worst its my In-law's best friend. -
    m<(o.o)>m

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    745

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    Papers I guess could best be described as a family tree.

    As a registered breeder I must register the entire litter with (since living in NSW) Royal NSW Canine Council Ltd. Each puppy is given a name that starts with the Kennel Name eg; Fireball, then the dogs individual name eg Little Boy Blu. So the dogs entire registered name is Fireball Little Boy Blu. I can choose to either register the puppies as Limited Registered (not for breeding or showing) or Full Registere (considered worthy of breeding and showing at time of sale).

    So out of a litter of 6 puppies I may submit paperwork and pay a fee for example 2 puppies to be on the full register and the remainder on the limited register (limited register is what pet puppies go on).

    Doesn't matter which registration you puppy is under it will have the ANKC stamp in the bottom right hand corner. The two are differentiated by being different colours.

    On the front at the top it will say Certificate of Registration and Pedigree
    Dogs Name: Fireball Little Boy Blu 2100054763 (the number being his/her registration number with Dogs NSW)
    Breed: Whippet Country of origin: Australia
    Date of Birth: 02/01/12 Microchip No: 3594730487765
    Colour: Fawn, particolour

    It will then have a family tree set out. First the Sire's side of the family back to great grand parents, then the dams side. It may have details such as colour or in the case of dogs requiring scoring the scores of the parents/grandparents etc.

    it will then have the breeders name and registration number, the date your puppy was registered
    Issued by: Royal NSW Canine Council Ltd, the date issued and the Registered owner.

    In the first instance the registered owner will be the breeder and their registration number again.

    There is then the back of the registration papers. It is here that the new owner/puppy purchaser fills out their details, name, address and membership number (if any), they sign and the breeder signs it. If you wish to transfer the puppy into your name you send the signed registrations paperwork into Dogs NSW and the same paperwork will come back with the only change being is that Registered Owner will now be you.
    Last edited by MAC; 03-13-2012 at 12:44 PM.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC View Post
    Papers I guess could best be described as a family tree.

    As a registered breeder I must register the entire litter with (since living in NSW) Royal NSW Canine Council Ltd. Each puppy is given a name that starts with the Kennel Name eg; Fireball, then the dogs individual name eg Little Boy Blu. So the dogs entire registered name is Fireball Little Boy Blu. I can choose to either register the puppies as Limited Registered (not for breeding or showing) or Full Registere (considered worthy of breeding and showing at time of sale).

    So out of a litter of 6 puppies I may submit paperwork and pay a fee for example 2 puppies to be on the full register and the remainder on the limited register (limited register is what pet puppies go on).

    Doesn't matter which registration you puppy is under it will have the ANKC stamp in the bottom right hand corner. The two are differentiated by being different colours.

    On the front at the top it will say Certificate of Registration and Pedigree
    Dogs Name: Fireball Little Boy Blu 2100054763 (the number being his/her registration number with Dogs NSW)
    Breed: Whippet Country of origin: Australia
    Date of Birth: 02/01/12 Microchip No: 3594730487765
    Colour: Fawn, particolour

    It will then have a family tree set out. First the Sire's side of the family back to great grand parents, then the dams side. It may have details such as colour or in the case of dogs requiring scoring the scores of the parents/grandparents etc.

    it will then have the breeders name and registration number, the date your puppy was registered
    Issued by: Royal NSW Canine Council Ltd, the date issued and the Registered owner.

    In the first instance the registered owner will be the breeder and their registration number again.

    There is then the back of the registration papers. It is here that the new owner/puppy purchaser fills out their details, name, address and membership number (if any), they sign and the breeder signs it. If you wish to transfer the puppy into your name you send the signed registrations paperwork into Dogs NSW and the same paperwork will come back with the only change being is that Registered Owner will now be you.
    Thanks for the info

    Quote Originally Posted by Princely View Post
    So I recently purchased a GSD pup which we are very very happy with. He has a wonderful temperament and is a very smart little guy.

    I am ashamed to admit though, that I got him from what I now perceive to be a BYB. I have had dogs all my life, but until now the responsibility for anything but playing and feeding has never been my own, so I am quite uneducated on anything else to do with registering a dog and having "papers".

    So, here's my ridiculously silly question - what exactly are papers? How do you get them? What exactly does having "papers" do for a dog? I admittedly should have done all this research beforehand but his purchase happened so quickly (I fell in love with him as soon as I saw him - big mistake, I know!) and I am just trying to do the right thing by him.

    Thank you for putting up with my silly question. Any information will be appreciated.
    I spoken to Dogs NSW - if you purchased your dog from a BYB and not registered breeder, the chances of having your dog registered with ANKC and Dogs NSW is very slim and if you want to start a pedigree *if you want to breed your dog and do the right thing.

    From the consultant I spoken this morning. To get a dog registered without a pedigree, the dog must pass a lot of test mostly specially DNA and Temperament.

    I hope this help.
    m<(o.o)>m

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    745

    Default

    by registering litters Dogs NSW knows how many litters I have in a year and more importantly whether I'm abiding by their code of ethics regarding how many litters a bitch may have etc, consecutive litters that sort of thing.

    All this info helps me with my breeding programme and helps me make future choices for hopefully bettering the breed. eg: I put a shorter bodied bitch (a fault) to a moderately length dog, but due to knowing the dogs behind them and then linking into Whippet Archives I knew there was a high chance that this pairing would throw longer bodied dogs capable of best performing what they are bred to do. I could counter too much shape with less etc etc.

    Once upon a time we didn't have to register all puppies in a litter and designed our own family tree paperwork so that pet buyers could see their dogs history. Now with Limited Register and the new rules we have to register all puppies within a litter not just those that will go on for showing and breeding.

    Having papers for most pet buyers doesn't mean much, other than that they are buying from a registered breeder who is abiding by the code of ethics (at least in this area). Though if you wanted to you could with little effort and DOL research your dogs ancestors. it's just one of the first steps in ensuring that you are not supporting byb or possible puppy farmers etc.

    I forgot to also add that titles won at time of registration will be displayed for instance Ch. Fireball Fido CD ET. And place of birth, eg; puppies Grandfather may have been an import Ch. Firestrike Big Bob (Belgium) etc etc.

    If you go onto to trial your puppy and submit it's passes in say CD you will get back paperwork now displaying puppies name with his title eg : Fireball Blue Boy CD
    Last edited by MAC; 03-13-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    12,581

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    Being that Princely's location is Melbourne they might find this thread informative (and somewhat depressing)

    http://www.dogforum.com.au/general-d...eeder-vic.html

    Your breeder is the one who is supposed to do the papers and the microchipping for all puppies sold / 8 weeks old after 1st of January in Victoria. If you ring up dogs vic or KCCC (link in the thread), they should be able to confirm if the person who sold you the puppy is on the register (and required to register all the puppies).

    If not erm. You may be able to get some joy from your department of primary industries who made the law or the your office of consumer affairs - because you did not get what you thought you were paying for.

    If you paid by credit card - you can write to them and say you did not get what you paid for and you can get your money back (they have insurance for this kind of thing). If you paid by cash you're probably screwed.

    Given there is a family connection - you may be screwed anyway - and just enjoy your puppy. You could still compete in obedience, or agility or other dog sports but not the conformation shows (beauty contests).

    Warning to others who may be lurking - there has been some identy theft and fraud where certain bad people have copied the microchip numbers from legit breeders for their puppy ads. In fact some of those bad people may not even have real puppies and are just running a money scam. So it pays to look up the microchip numbers on the ads and confirm the breed and details match the ad.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    BrisVagas
    Posts
    724

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    Well said MAC

    Mac is exactly right..
    Also what people don't know is..
    When you see an advertisement saying pure bred pups
    mum & dad have papers but pups don't..
    This means the breeder is BYB and is not a registered Kennel..
    You must also be a registered Kennel to be able to supply new
    puppies with their pedigree paper work..

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